Is Nine Volt Audio The New Crysonic?

[bigcat1969]

Reminds me of working at Sears. Technically they had to have the appliances on sale less than 1/2 of the year. So each appliance had two numbers and every so often they would change which number was on sale. Two weeks a year nothing was on sale. 50 weeks a year everything was on sale.

[Aleatoriac]

Look it's like Black Friday sales... if you can drop it that low, what are you doing ripping me off the rest of the year? So a company decides to put it up at a permanently discounted price. And that's "dishonest"... somehow... FML

[elxsound]

Look it's like Black Friday sales... if you can drop it that low, what are you doing ripping me off the rest of the year? So a company decides to put it up at a permanently discounted price. And that's "dishonest"... somehow... FML

No one is bothering to read...

It's the mob mentality. Someone says something, so it must be true, and the rest fall like dominos.

[incubus]

Look it's like Black Friday sales... if you can drop it that low, what are you doing ripping me off the rest of the year? So a company decides to put it up at a permanently discounted price. And that's "dishonest"... somehow... FML

No one is bothering to read...

It's the mob mentality. Someone says something, so it must be true, and the rest fall like dominos.

Correct. Social media has allowed people to soapbox about anything. So the schools of fish move in whatever direction they want, facts be damned.

[elxsound]

Look it's like Black Friday sales... if you can drop it that low, what are you doing ripping me off the rest of the year? So a company decides to put it up at a permanently discounted price. And that's "dishonest"... somehow... FML

No one is bothering to read...

It's the mob mentality. Someone says something, so it must be true, and the rest fall like dominos.

Correct. Social media has allowed people to soapbox about anything. So the schools of fish move in whatever direction they want, facts be damned.

I think I believe you, but only because I read this online and everything online must be true.

[jsp1979]

Was this there before this thread was posted?

Its not like they are saying "Buy now! Going out of business sale! Get it before its gone!!!"

Seems up front well enough.

Ahh..but that's the problem. The initial sale was a "going out of business! You only have 4 days 6 hours 22 minutes..." etc. sort of sale. And nearly two years later, you can still buy it.

That was the dishonest part. As pointed out in the mega NVA thread, brick and mortar stores in most states legally can't do that. You can't have a "going out of business" sale (to attract customers) and then stay in business. I'm not saying that sort of law applies here, but the principle behind such laws is the same as the issue discussed here.

Plus, they've had this "limited time offer" announcement up since January of this year. So, even that's not correct. They gave away one of the libraries at that time and then encouraged people to buy the collection.

Does this make them Cryonsonic? Heck no. Crysonic is pretty much the lowest of the low of software companies. They make crap products, spam customers mercilessly, make false promises, etc. I'm not sure they can accurately tell you what their plug-ins actually do. I can't think of anyone near their level around here except maybe Kjaerhaus (who made great products but abandoned his customers without a trace and with no way to authorize their products).

So, what should NVA do? That's the real question. They could stop selling the product, or perhaps just drop the limited time crap and just sell it normally (and perhaps give a note to explain it "Hey, we thought we'd do it this way but we made a mistake..."). It's not that hard to fix. I'd love for the guy to make lots of money. Sampling is tough market in which to make a living.

[elxsound]

Was this there before this thread was posted?

Its not like they are saying "Buy now! Going out of business sale! Get it before its gone!!!"

Seems up front well enough.

Ahh..but that's the problem. The initial sale was a "going out of business! You only have 4 days 6 hours 22 minutes..." etc. sort of sale. And nearly two years later, you can still buy it.

That was the dishonest part. As pointed out in the mega NVA thread, brick and mortar stores in most states legally can't do that. You can't have a "going out of business" sale (to attract customers) and then stay in business. I'm not saying that sort of law applies here, but the principle behind such laws is the same as the issue discussed here.

Plus, they've had this "limited time offer" announcement up since January of this year. So, even that's not correct. They gave away one of the libraries at that time and then encouraged people to buy the collection.

Does this make them Cryonsonic? Heck no. Crysonic is pretty much the lowest of the low of software companies. They make crap products, spam customers mercilessly, make false promises, etc. I'm not sure they can accurately tell you what their plug-ins actually do. I can't think of anyone near their level around here except maybe Kjaerhaus (who made great products but abandoned his customers without a trace and with no way to authorize their products).

So, what should NVA do? That's the real question. They could stop selling the product, or perhaps just drop the limited time crap and just sell it normally (and perhaps give a note to explain it "Hey, we thought we'd do it this way but we made a mistake..."). It's not that hard to fix. I'd love for the guy to make lots of money. Sampling is tough market in which to make a living.

But there is a note that explains it.

Its right below the line... Why are we doing this?

Read, read, read, read, read.... Don't just rely on others to post honestly. Read for yourself.

[jsp1979]

But there is a note that explains it.

Its right below the line... Why are we doing this?

We're doing this because you don't seem to understand what the rest of us are talking about.

I lived through the whole deal. I got all of the *original* emails about the "going out of business sale". I know what happened. I read their post as well. I read this whole thread. It doesn't change one single thing that I wrote.

In November 2013, they originally had a going out of business sale with a drop-dead end date and lots of hype about "buy now before it's gone!"

Here's (a portion of) their note:

"Nine Volt Audio is shutting its doors.

In January 2014 we will stop selling our libraries.

In a few days we will launch a "Going Out of Business" Group Buy sale."

They never closed that sale.

Over a year later (in November 2014), they offered a free library and re-advertised the sale (and wrote the note you saw). That new limited time sale (which was the same sale that had been going since late 2013) has been going on for 8 months since that time.

That note they left on the site (that you keep thinking the rest of us aren't reading) was for the **2nd time** they advertised the going out of business sale and it occurred a year after they said that they'd stop selling the libraries.

When you advertise a going out of business sale and that you'll stop selling a collection in order to entice buyers to buy and *then* you keep selling it for years thereafter, it's going to rub some customers the wrong way.

You may not care. That's fine, but certainly you might see how that comes across as deceptive advertising to make some sales.

[elxsound]

But there is a note that explains it.

Its right below the line... Why are we doing this?

We're doing this because you don't seem to understand what the rest of us are talking about.

I lived through the whole deal. I got all of the *original* emails about the "going out of business sale". I know what happened. I read their post as well. I read this whole thread. It doesn't change one single thing that I wrote.

In November 2013, they originally had a going out of business sale with a drop-dead end date and lots of hype about "buy now before it's gone!"

Here's (a portion of) their note:

"Nine Volt Audio is shutting its doors.

In January 2014 we will stop selling our libraries.

In a few days we will launch a "Going Out of Business" Group Buy sale."

They never closed that sale.

Over a year later, they offered a free library and re-advertised the sale (and wrote the note you saw). That new limited time sale (which was the same sale that had been going since late 2013) has been going on for 8 months since that time.

That note they left on the site (that you keep thinking the rest of us aren't reading) was for the **2nd time** they advertised the going out of business sale and it occurred a year after they said that they'd stop selling the libraries.

When you advertise a going out of business sale and that you'll stop selling a collection in order to entice buyers to buy and *then* you keep selling it for years thereafter, it's going to rub some customers the wrong way.

You may not care. That's fine, but certainly you might see how that comes across as deceptive advertising to make some sales.

I "lived through this whole deal" too (regardless of how strange a statement to make... It's not like it was a war or natural disaster).

I did not buy into it the group deal.

After it ended I was going to email them if it was still available (I ultimately did not as I just don't like having too much content at once), BUT this is why I believe them and do not seeing anything dishonest about what they are offering.

They are not claiming that they are still going out of business. This already happened.

These are digital goods, and I assume all responsible parties (involved in developing them) are in agreement with these being allowed to "currently" remain for sale.

Again, I'm sure its easier to simply make it available as automatable purchase, than to field constant inquiries if they would make an exception and sell to each individual asking for it.


And as far as the indefinite time it will remain available, I'm sure it'll last until they get tired of the BS involved having it for sale. Probably not too long after reading this thread.

[careyletendre]

Well first of all, it actually is illegal in all 50 U.S. states for a business to advertise a going out of business sale when it is NOT legally in the process of going out of business. Regulations can be found under the FTC's deceptive advertising guidelines, but every state has related laws because there has been a great deal of retailer abuse of "going out of business sales" on regional levels by retailers. FTR, I'm a very experienced marketer, from the world of big brands, with accolades from more than one of the largest U.S. marketing associations as a marketing expert.

Now, if the question is, "Will 9 Volt Audio be prosecuted?" I'd say it's unlikely because it's such a small business and it would take a very persistent and angry customer or more likely group of customers bringing this to the attention of his/her state attorney general because there's a lot of this kind of deceptive advertising going on. It's a textbook example of deceptive advertising. So, I completely understand why this business'es practices are so disturbing to many people. We want the businesses/developers we deal with to be fair and honest and to see one be so brazenly dishonest is upsetting. I recently saw a promoted post in my feed from Facebook from Nine Volt Audio -- probably two years from the first time I saw an ad from the dev promoting 9 Volt Audio "going out of business sale." Again, this clearly falls under false advertising laws and would be a slam dunk in the court system if someone pursued this matter with an interested attorney general. But I would first suggest someone contacting the developer and pointing out this and some of the other past threads about his fake going out of business sales first to see if he has any interest of correcting his practices and doing the right thing.

From the FTC:

"WHEN CAN A COMPANY ADVERTISE A "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE"?
The short answer is: only when a store is going out of business. It would be deceptive to advertise a “going out of business sale” when a store is not going out of business. If a store in your area is advertising what looks to be a bogus “going out of business sale,” contact your state Attorney General’s office."

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busines ... l-business

Great post!

Carey

[incubus]

[quote="elxsoundI think I believe you, but only because I read this online and everything online must be true.[/quote]

[ZentralmassivSound]

It's really going the Crysonic way. Now they say "reopen for ten days", and there is also a promotional sale with VST Buzz.

[Doug1978]

And so the old argument repeats itself from page one, and from a previous thread too...

Crysonic's reputation is well known around here. They offered poor quality products (judging from reviews and feedback), and failed to answer customer complaints and questions.


By contrast, Nine Volt Audio is/was run by a decent guy who closed the business because piracy affected his sales.
NVA's sample libraries were innovative and very well received: read past SoundonSound magazine reviews etc for proof.
Following some later customer enquiries (including my own), Kyle started selling again.


It seems that a few people are now taking issue with the sales promotion.
TBH, I fail to see how these sales affect someone's life so drastically that they want to play at being internet lawyers - given that it's a practical chance to buy some excellent music libraries.

Either way, unlike Crysonic, Kyle always answers people's questions - which makes me wonder: has anyone here actually bothered to contact him about their concerns regarding the semantics used for his sale?



Just for the record, are you:
1) asking NVA to completely close down because a few people believe that they are ''the new Crysonic''?

2) or asking NVA to simply change the title of its sale?


I imagine most people would be happy for NVA to continue selling their sample libraries.

And here's those glowing SOS reviews:
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?Keyw ... volt+audio

[ZentralmassivSound]

TBH, I fail to see how these sales affect someone's life so drastically that they want to play at being internet lawyers - given that it's a practical chance to buy some excellent music libraries.

Hey, calm down. You just don't say "hurry up, only 10 days left" when you don't mean it. You don't say "I'm going out of business" if you don't mean it. It's that simple.

[arkmabat]

It's dishonest. Ironically, dishonesty was the cause of all this.