This explains a lot about Cakewalk/Sonar

[jinotsuh]

OK...how is the Platinum version working out for you peeps who have it?

Rock solid, crash free since release, upgraded with every new update on release, use very little Calwalk plugins as such, only the odd Pro Channel plug when required , so almost exclusively 3rd party plugins. I have nothing really to complain about. Rapture Pro ? now that's another story

[Jim Roseberry]

I have A HUGE objection to this (also found at presonus forums)

ANYTHING works w/o 3rd party stuff or doing a vast array of electronic music (EDM is just a tag people that work with audio to mostly belittle electronic music makers, maybe not you personally, but it's a buzzword at the very least) It's simply UNACCEPTABLE that "that" is what a product is based on for the last 10 years.

Seriously, I respect you. You probably know more about this business than I do, but that is absurd observation.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying...
I should have worded my post more carefully.
I don't care *for* bundled content... as I have my personal favorite 3rd party plugins.
I don't care so much *for* included instruments/EFX (for the same reason).
No matter what's bundled, I'll most likely use my favorite 3rd party plugins.

While I'm not personally into EDM, I don't have anything against it.
I was just pointing out there are facets (features) of Sonar that I personally don't use.
ie: I don't do a lot of realtime parameter automation for virtual instruments (common in EDM)
I'm sure that the case with a lot of users. Not all features are applicable to all scenarios.

Within the realm I work, Sonar Platinum is a reliable tool.

[Robert Randolph]

I have A HUGE objection to this (also found at presonus forums)

ANYTHING works w/o 3rd party stuff or doing a vast array of electronic music (EDM is just a tag people that work with audio to mostly belittle electronic music makers, maybe not you personally, but it's a buzzword at the very least) It's simply UNACCEPTABLE that "that" is what a product is based on for the last 10 years.

Seriously, I respect you. You probably know more about this business than I do, but that is absurd observation.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying...
I should have worded my post more carefully.
I don't care *for* bundled content... as I have my personal favorite 3rd party plugins.
I don't care so much *for* included instruments/EFX (for the same reason).
No matter what's bundled, I'll most likely use my favorite 3rd party plugins.

While I'm not personally into EDM, I don't have anything against it.
I was just pointing out there are facets (features) of Sonar that I personally don't use.
ie: I don't do a lot of realtime parameter automation for virtual instruments (common in EDM)
I'm sure that the case with a lot of users. Not all features are applicable to all scenarios.

Within the realm I work, Sonar Platinum is a reliable tool.

How can we trust you? Your website has an autoplaying video with autoplayed music.

[Jim Roseberry]

How can we trust you? Your website has an autoplaying video with autoplayed music.

You're free to trust whomever you see fit.

If you're being serious, I think it's a waste of energy to be mad.
You can stop the video transport (it ends after 30s).

[LawrenceF]

EDM is just a tag people that work with audio to mostly belittle electronic music makers

Not really imo, mmv. It seems to be more the case that conversations about music on the Internet are largely dominated by people who do electronic music (dance, trance, etc, etc, etc, related genres) and maybe too many of them dismiss everything else as if there's only one way to make music.

You can see it in the discussions where everything that isn't good for "EDM" is a "fail".

While I'm not personally a fan of any of those genres - never having once in my life ever bought a song in any of those genres - I still understand and respect them.

[BlitBit]

E.g. just try to assign a LFO to one of the waveshapers, then draw some notes in your sequencer, play the notes with the LFO modulating, then stop playback, then rewind, and play again. The LFO modulation should stop working. In my case even until i closed the project, or close the host.

I wasn't able to repro that behaviour here in Reaper, at least.

I can still reproduce the problem in Reaper 5.01 with the steps described here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9#p5607149

The bug report is almost two years old now with only one status change where they have set it to "Submitted to Development" over a year ago. I guess they are either too busy with other stuff or their development department consists of only one developer.

[vintagevibe]

I lost trust in Cakewalk after their cliche of 'new beginning' every time. The last time I had faith, it was in Sonar X3 and when I noticed how many hidden bugs are there and no one wants to fix them, I deleted it completely with all Cakewalk products from my PC. It felt so good really
Anyway, I'm glad that I got rid of my account and sold it (although with 80% loss, but that is OK, it is better than 100% loss!).

That's a huge part of their problem. If you liked the old direction you're screwed. Their current "new direction" of course is their "best yet" but they have the same issues of half baked and buggy features but now bugs and workarounds are all year long. It really seems like they still lack anything resembling a vision.

[acYm]

Sonar isn't entirely hopeless for edm, it's just stupidly crippled by the lack of vision and motivation of the developers. As bare-bones as it may be, at least there's a serviceable integrated step sequencer, which is more than can be said of many other daws. They'll never update it, though, making it useless and limited next to Nerve and such.

z3ta+2 is obviously a legendary instrument, and you had better hope you have Sonar to use it in if you don't want a buggy crashfest, and even then. But that's where it's likely going to stop for Cakewalk's instruments, they'll never update it or make a new one, so it will eventually be rendered obsolete.

And while the macro knob system is a chore, at least it exists. Where Sonar really hits its nose on the wall is with the antiquated automation system. It's straight out of 2001. Modern automation in Sonar basically consists of doing ALL automation using third party midi envelope plugins, that you can actually do stuff with. Total pain in the ass, and ultimately why I switched to re-wiring FL for my arrangements.

Someone said earlier that the piano roll is similar to FL in platinum. lol no. The piano roll in FL is light-years ahead of anything else. Sonar's doesn't have 1/20 of the functionality. You can zoom in and make the notes look big now, that's pretty much where the similarities end.

Sonar is leading in one category right now: multitrack audio editing and comping. They nailed it down hardcore. Because of that it's worth using for vocal projects and such, otherwise it's rather useless. I don't think I'll renew my membership once I'm done paying this year's installment.

It's a really stable daw though, nowadays. The problematic versions were all during the Roland era. Something went really wrong for sure. I'd say X2 is a candidate for worst daw ever.

[Mystic]

I've been using Sonar for years now.

When we switched to the X series, it wasn't an easy one. The new interface took some getting use to. The bigger issues were the crashes. X1 was buggy but manageable. X2... almost made me leave Cakewalk. X3 is when things started looking up so I stuck with them. It was more stable and they were adding a lot of great third party stuff to the package which I liked because most of the stuff Sonar came with IMO is rubbish. I don't use Dim Pro, I don't use Rapture, I did use Z3TA+ 2 but then Serum came and I forgot Z3TA existed.

Then Sonar came out with the membership program this year. It's the best decision they have ever made. We're seeing monthly updates and constant development on new features that we actually want. That alone is more than I can say about pretty much every other DAW out there. When the X series was in swing, we would see two, maybe three updates for the life of the product so to have this kind of development going on has been incredible. A great example of how they are doing things now: we've been asking for Track-to-Track Routing for YEARS and it's now being released hopefully this month. Most importantly though is the constant bug fixes we are getting. A bug gets reported and they are on top of working on it.

I think the biggest problem with the X series was Roland. Many of us who own the V-Studio are feeling now how bad of a company Roland actually is with their unwillingness to give us an updated Windows 10 driver. Luckily some good people on the forums have helped many of us who are now on Win 10 get our 8.1 drivers to work with 10 and we're back up and running. Yes, it was a risk for a lot of us to move to a new OS but I've always been an early adopter and I'm having fantastic results in 10. The bigger problem in my eyes is Roland has simply denied us a new driver for their product that many of us paid a lot of money for when it first came out. I'm not sure what their deal is, but the way they run their company explains a lot about why Cakewalk was seemingly going down the path it was. Oh yah, Sonar was also one of the first DAWs to have full Windows 10 comparability. Not going to point fingers, but some other "professional" DAWs are still having issues there. Just sayin'.

Overall, use what works for you and what you like working in. If you get the results you're looking for, then who bloody well cares? I'm extremely happy with Sonar Plat and will stick with it as long as it keeps me happy. If the time comes that I feel they are slipping back to the world of X2 which I would hope will never happen and they learned their lesson, then I will switch. But it's been going swimmingly and I have no complaints.

[sonicpowa]

Then Sonar came out with the membership program this year. It's the best decision they have ever made. We're seeing monthly updates and constant development on new features that we actually want.

I agree. I´m very happy with the current direction.
Yes the X series had problems: with X1 they had to do a major code change and framework for the new GUI, and at the time of X2 they were leaving Roland, but after Gibson take over they have been on fire with the updates.

[Karma_tba]

Then Sonar came out with the membership program this year. It's the best decision they have ever made. We're seeing monthly updates and constant development on new features that we actually want.

I agree. I´m very happy with the current direction.
Yes the X series had problems: with X1 they had to do a major code change and framework for the new GUI, and at the time of X2 they were leaving Roland, but after Gibson take over they have been on fire with the updates.

Yeah OK, but what happens when they run out of cities in Massachusetts to name the updates after?

[sonicpowa]

^ damn I thought only sky is the limit..

[Mystic]

Yeah OK, but what happens when they run out of cities in Massachusetts to name the updates after?

Sports teams and frozen lemonade?

[Atza]

I'm not sure that Sonar is designed for non professionals. Its too advanced to be called that. Besides they have home studio for that purpose.

[pwal]

I'm not sure that Sonar is designed for non professionals.

have you seen the new "style dials"?