KVR MIX CHALLENGE - MC13 August 2015 - Winners announced

[Kolyev]

As promised, here is my overhauled mix:

mp3:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ibdvh47l0i9ll ... v.mp3?dl=0

wav:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vb0tfmixcr1o ... v.wav?dl=0

Changes that were applied to the mix:
- Processing of the drums was dialed back a notch for a more natural drum sound.
- Wah-pedal guitar was reamped to make it sound more like a guitar and less like a synthesizer and also to make it sound like a wah pedal guitar
- Ryhthm Guitars: First I readressed the noise issue and then guitars were made more heavy and aggressive using some of the tips provided from audio supernova. This obviously made EQ and levelling changes necessary.

[polygonsheep]

Version 2

https://soundcloud.com/polygonsheep/aud ... lygonsheep

https://www.dropbox.com/s/si07ra0el0m6e ... p.wav?dl=0


Added gain booster and skreamer (guitar rig 5) on all guitars along with copious amounts of automation on noise gate and noise reduction.

Revamped the wah guitar and wah automation.

A few level changes, a few EQ changes.

Happier with this version.

[polygonsheep]

Sorry double post

[Compyfox]

Guess only my track remains.

Here it is - in two flavors.

Flavor A - FX on the arp guitar
Elsewhere - Round 2 wah triggered - MP3 Version (ca 11,4MB, 320kbit VBR, 44/24)
Elsewhere - Round 2 wah triggered - WAV Version (ca 97MB, 44/24)

Flavor B - no FX on the arp guitar
Elsewhere - Round 2 - MP3 Version (ca 11,4MB, 320kbit VBR, 44/24)
Elsewhere - Round 2 - WAV Version (ca 97MB, 44/24)


I did a lot(!) of changes.
- I slightly changed the volume of the drum tracks
- I overhauled all guitars and gave them a "healthy upper mid range boost" (basically, I switched the upper mid band frequency to a higher setting, e.g. from 2,9khz to 4,7khz, then boosted by another 2dB), and I cut the guitars a bit higher (Neve EQ, fixed frequencies, 82kHz instead of 47Hz with 12dB/Oct) to make more room for the bass
- the Rhythm Guitars were "widened" and got a different subtle 32th dotted ping pong delay effect
- I boosted the LF band of the solo guitar by an additional 6-9dB, also changed the LC from 82Hz to 47Hz.
- the Bass track now uses more mid-band distortion mixed in parallel during the shred parts. The grouped channel got a parallel EQ boost around 4kHz to cut better through the mix
- the piano, synth and strings got a new EQ setting (slightly altered from it's original setting)
- I rewrote the volume automation for the Solo Guitar and the piano
- the wah pedal moves a bit "further" to the sides, and one version of the mixes uses a rhythmic gate triggered at certain places during the production for added effect.
- the summing bus console emulation (NEVE) is now "driven" in a more balanced way (avg signal strength: 0VU, more quiet parts around -4VU, shred parts around +3VU)
- I rendered the track with one bar extra to let the reverb ring out properly

I do understand the notion that metal guitars need to be upper mid heavy and "razor sharp" to cut through a mix. Especially in modern days - unlike classic rock or 80ies metal (listen to Pantera, Slayer and Metallica to understand what I mean!). So I did indeed initially mess up a bit and boosted the wrong (upper) mid frequencies. The mix should be way more "brutal" now.

Due to this "night and day" heavy editing, the file size of the MP3 versions changed from 8,1MB to 11,4MB!



All in all - from my first edits to the finished "Mix Round 2" entry, I invested roughly 16 hours.

And I am really, really pleased with this mix. Most of the time, I actually "under-mix" things and then add some "fairy dust" during mastering (an additional, subtle EQ). But in this case, a simple loudness raise/limiting job might just do the trick. Though if the high frequency content is too much (which is a matter of taste), there are always ways to tame it of course (like using an additional tape machine with a low bias/low IPS or more vintage tape, just plain high shelf EQ, etc).






And with my entry being the last, "Mix Round 2" has officially ended.
We're back to the evaluation phase - so good luck still.

[Compyfox]

A small update in things:
The client already got all files, but didn't have the time to listen to them yet due to him being busy throughout the week.

He'll get back to the challenge with the results by the end of the weekend.



In the meantime:
Why not check out KVR MC14?
And we're still looking for new material to mix as well.

[audiosupernova]

Okay, so I've finally had a chance to download all the tracks for the 5 finalists and have a nice long listen to each, do some A/B comparisons, and deliberate for a while. After lots and lots of A/B comparisons, slicing the track up into specific sections to compare the strengths of one mix vs another I have finally chosen the winners for the August MC13.

1st Place: Kolyev
2nd Place: polygonsheep
3rd Place: Compyfox

Unfortunately Mixedmind's track still had misaligned parts, and was thus eliminated from the running for top 3, but these mixes were really quite a challenge for me to choose winners. Each of your mixes had unique strengths and weaknesses but Kolyev's track I felt was the strongest overall. Additionally, I thought his mix sounded the most "metal".

Feedback:
Kolyev: The drums especially matched up with a lot of the trends I hear in modern metal mixing, which I especially liked. The guitars sound nice and aggressive guitars, but the rhythms could stand to have a little more character. I'd bring up the volume a tad on the lead guitar part ever so slightly. I thought the piano was too loud in most sections. My only other complaint is that the mix does sound a little stuffy, and could use more clarity/air in the mix (that may not mean anything, but it's the only way I know how to describe it).

Polygonsheep: Yours was close behind Kolyev's mix, but there were a few weird spots with the mix; around the 2:42 section the guitar is way overamplified, and then cuts out all of a sudden. Also, it sounds like there's very little reverb on the rhythm guitar parts, or none at all. That reduced the realism a bit I think.

Compyfox: much improved mix over the 1st submission, but do think the mix could a bit more clarity during the heavy rhythm guitar parts, as things still sound a bit muddy. I love the little glitch effect you added onto the wah guitar part. Little things like that add a lot of character to the track, which I especially enjoyed. I’d bring up the lead guitar a tad in volume, and maybe bring up the drums a tad as well. They currently sound a bit buried under everything else at the moment during the heavy parts.

Honorable Mention
Photonic: You had a great mix with superb clarity and a pretty good lead guitar tone (I loved the reverb/delay/whatever it was). There were a few spots however when I wasn't sure if the rhythm guitar was playing at all (3:48-4:10 for example). I'm not sure if the issues where due to a lack of distortion, gain, or what, but parts like those made it difficult to recognize the rhythm in the mix. Because the rhythm guitars are in 90% of the mix, this hurt you quite a bit. Drums were a little flat, and especially needed some fattening up on the snare hits.

[Compyfox]

First and foremost, thanks for your time checking out all mixes again, AudioSupernova...


And... congrats to the winners:

1st Place: Kolyev
2nd Place: polygonsheep
3rd Place: Compyfox

As usual... please select one of the available prices from the pool, mention what you chose in here and then get in touch with satYatunes. He'll sort you out.




Question time:

Compyfox: much improved mix over the 1st submission, but do think the mix could a bit more clarity during the heavy rhythm guitar parts, as things still sound a bit muddy.

Can you maybe elaborate on that. I heard this feedback by a couple of other people that I showed my mix. But neither of them could exactly tell me what is wrong according to their findings.

I have an assumption, but I don't think that this is purely down to reverb usage.

I love the little glitch effect you added onto the wah guitar part. Little things like that add a lot of character to the track, which I especially enjoyed. I’d bring up the lead guitar a tad in volume, and maybe bring up the drums a tad as well. They currently sound a bit buried under everything else at the moment during the heavy parts.

Thanks for the positive comment on the glitch effect. This was a final idea I had during mixing. Actually, I wanted to use a Whammy Pedal on the lead guitar, but I didn't find a good spot to use it. But I was listening to a lot of progressive/alternate metal recently and some of these tracks had gated/stuttering guitar sections for added impact. A friend of mine was like "treat this guitar like a synth, add some surprise elements". So i pulled out dBlue Glitch v1 (since this can be MIDI triggered, couldn't find my BE copy of Artillery) and added the gate effect here and there. IMO, this really adds to the production and does indeed add some added impact to certain sections.

I also recently listened to the track on regular consumer headphones while walking around the streets. And yes, the drum set does drown a bit. But I also blame this on a -18dBFS RMS avg mix compared to usual -10dB RMS avg mixes and masters on my Smartphone.

Still, the one or another thing can be done, like raising the snare by 1-2dB to make the drums even more aggressive, and add some parallel EQ to the kick "click" sound. But I didn't want to push parallel compression for even more added sound. I feel like, the drums are too heavily processed already.

What I still don't like, is the lead guitar. Not the tone in general, or the volume (which to me, is already a bit too loud), but maybe the reverb. A friend of mine was like "did you try a mono reverb?" (I actually used the same stereo long hall reverb for most instruments and the lead guitar) - this could be a culprit for the slightly too washed out sound.

I might need to pull some tricks here, then run the track through some proper limiting and loudness raising. Maybe this will change some things.



But I'd love to know "what" type of clarity could still be done during the shred parts? I mean... compared to my original mix, I raised a lot of mid-high frequency content, cut the guitars higher to make space for the bass, and raised the distortion on the bass (and kick) for more added mid-range mix effect. It definitely is less muddy and more aggressive than before.

Just for understanding purposes.

[mixedmind]

these misalinged tracks were super anonying

[Kolyev]

This was probably the most difficult mix challenge I've taken part in so far (apart from the synth rock song a few months ago maybe), so Im obviously really happy with the outcome

Congratulations also to polygonsheep and compyfox.

The drums especially matched up with a lot of the trends I hear in modern metal mixing, which I especially liked

I have been listening to the new symphony x album quite a lot recently, I guess this reflects on the drum sound I've chosen.

My only other complaint is that the mix does sound a little stuffy, and could use more clarity/air in the mix

That's interesting, as my first overhauled mix version was brighter and I was afraid it may be a bit harsh on the highs, thus I dialed it back a notch. I will keep that in mind for future mixes.

As far as the prize goes, I'll pick acon digital verberate.

[Compyfox]

these misalinged tracks were super anonying

Sorry to say this, but this was also(!) part of the challenge (emphasis: challenge!).



You can't expect clients to offer flawless files, properly aligned and what not. It is your job as (virtual) AE to analyze what's going on, and fix it.

Yes, the Time Stretch thing could be considered annoying, but EVERY major host these days should have the capability to turn off meta tag written BPM values (which results in time stretching) for proper placement in a production. I even wrote about post about this a couple of pages back, and I can confirm that nearly EVERY host these days has this feature (including Reaper - how this works out for you, lies on a different ballpark).


Regarding the misalignment of tracks... well... that was a really simple thing to fix once you turned of the time stretching and ignored the sadly not working bpm/signature map. The guitars were off by a bar, so were the drums.

Personally I mixed WITHOUT the original track and went by my own mixing style. About halfway through my setup I realized that two things were off: guitars (clearly noticeable on the rhythm guitar doubling) and drums (once I also loaded the original track as reference to double check). Which spawned my comment in this thread btw - for those that don't realize this yet.

Then again, I do this every day. So it's basically second nature to me to look out for these things.



Which brings me to the main question in this case:
Was the challenge too hard?
Or rather, are the challenges (in general) too hard?

By that I mean... are we supposed to provide perfect tracks?
What are perfect tracks?
What is a suitable track amount? (I do remember negative comments towards MC10 - where people said "too many tracks to mix!")
There do we draw a line between "easy" and "hard", how do we define that?
I also realized that the participation is a bit low as of late (people that initially wrote "I'll join" through Twitter for example did not, etc), so I take it's either down to the genre provided, or the prices?


I'm trying to gather some feedback here.

[mixedmind]

looks like it was too hard for me. I use Ableton and auto-warp is turned off. So I thought everything is fine.
But then I was told some tracks were mis-aligned. So I tried to align the tracks and ... failed.

I must admit I am not a musician and I had really hard time trying to align things. And as the tracks were like -50db I hardly could see the transient in the waveforms. And it was a progressive metal song with like...
@ 100 BPM
0:00
8 Bars of 5/4
0:24
...
@ 66.66 BPM
2:39
5 bars of 6/8
1 bar of 10/8
... and so on
so it is hard to tell if it is mis-aligned by purpose or by accident.
And honestly I was a bit too lazy to go through the whole song and double check with the original song which was quite muddy.
and I can't understand how tracks can be mis-aligned if they were exported by a DAW.

anyway others fix it, me not ....

[satYatunes]

Congratulations to the winners:
1st Place: Kolyev
2nd Place: polygonsheep
3rd Place: Compyfox

I am sure all of you know the drill now . Select a plugin from the pool, send me a PM with plugin name, your name and e-mail. I will send the prize request to the devs. Please DO NOT contact them directly.

@AudioSuperNova - Thank you so much for providing a track for MC. Appreciate it

[Compyfox]

Thanks for chiming in, satYatunes.

and I can't understand how tracks can be mis-aligned if they were exported by a DAW.

Misalignment can happen, if you render and re-render various parts over the course of of several days or weeks. So chances are that you misclick here and there.

Then again, I also had projects (rare, but this can still happen) in my career that were rendered from position 1, all the way through, and they were still misaligned in another host. So it's always important to double check.



My questions from my last post are still valid however.



EDIT: 06-09-2015, 10:20pm
We're currently experiencing some difficulties with your sponsor in the introduction posts. We're working on a fix on the visuals.

[photonic]

Congratulations to Kolyev, polygonsheep and Compyfox !

And thank you AudioSuperNova for the Honorable Mention. Great feed back, valuable information for me.

[audiosupernova]

these misalinged tracks were super anonying

Yeah, I agree it's annoying. Part of what I'm wondering, is how it happened in the first place. I basically just solo'd each instrument, and muted all the effects, then rendered to WAV. Repeat that process for each instrument. There's a possibility it was due to some witchcraft in FL Studio (my DAW), but I'm really not sure.