Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[Hank the Knife]

'And Mutant wasn't right... he accused the OP of being a liar and suggested it wasn't just Diva and that there were additional effects. Mutant was wrong. It was just Diva.'
@pdxindy

Really.. if people think the Diva is worth an Oberheim, who am I to disturb their illusion? Because that was the intake, remember? Now.. get me a working Oberheim and I'll pay you €400 lmao funny.

[trimph1]

All these scurrilous accusations, insults et cetera needs to be canned.

Mutant has more of an interest in tracking sounds through oscilloscopes and such, I have an interest in the sound itself and how I can incorporate that into my palette, others, still, have interest in the original sound of the Oberheim itself.

NONE of us were physically present when these banks were made...except for the creator.

Believe it or not, but, when you are in a hospital, because you cannot breathe, none of this will amount to a hill of beans.

[pdxindy]

'And Mutant wasn't right... he accused the OP of being a liar and suggested it wasn't just Diva and that there were additional effects. Mutant was wrong. It was just Diva.'
@pdxindy

Really.. if people think the Diva is worth an Oberheim, who am I to disturb their illusion? Because that was the intake, remember? Now.. get me a working Oberheim and I'll pay you €400 lmao funny.

Myself, I used to own the OB and in mint condition. If you offered me one or the other, of course I'd take the OB... then sell it, buy Diva and pocket the extra cash for other stuff.

[Mutant]

a bit unfriendly?

anyway... if Diva were presented as an OB emulation, then there would be some reasonable expectation of using the same settings to get the same sound. However it isn't and that expectation is ridiculous. The OP can use whatever settings he wants to create sounds that are similar to his ear... it's his exploration and nobody elses business. If you want to try doing a different experiment, go right ahead. And whatever experiment you do, also would deserve the basic respect of someone who has put a bunch of time into something not being attacked by a bunch of people who haven't... I get rather tired of the agro sideline snipers.

And Mutant wasn't right... he accused the OP of being a liar and suggested it wasn't just Diva and that there were additional effects. Mutant was wrong. It was just Diva.

Dude... clear your mind and read it again.
The OP stated that it was 2 saw oscillators, i said Divas 2 saw oscillators don't look like that and asked what else he did to that sound to make it look like that.
It was just a question.
And later i explained that the "cheating" thing was not serious and that i forgot to put a proper emoticon there.
Weeks passed, with the only answer was what was written on pages 31 and 32 maybe (the board is offline now when i am writing so i can't quote it now) - 2 saw oscillators and nothing else and insinuations that i am a noobie that doesn't know what beating between 2 oscillatos does to the sound, or a conspiracy theory enthusiast and other kinds of mild hostility.
One gets suspicious when there is no >>correct<< answer to a simple question for so long.
I was the only one that noticed that something was strange with the sound, almost everyone else just took it as holy truth and never questioned it.
THERE WOULD BE NONE OF THAT IF THE OP SAID THAT THERE IS 3rd TRIANGLE OSCILLATOR IN THE SOUND.
I forgive him for this >>mistake<< and i hope he will forgive me for being not 100% nice about solving the mystery.
And about "accusations of lying" around pages 31-32, it was only 1 option out of two, i am 100% sure that i said something like: 1st option "lying" and 2nd option "made a mistake".
Because these 2 options are always there if someone says something that is impossible and/or not true.
For example: Sun is green.
I just lied, or i forgot to take off my green sunglasses.
Get it ?
[edit]
The board is back so i can quote it now from page 33:

I shouldnt have got sucked in in the first place but its irritating to be accused. Think what you like!

There are 2 possibilities.
One is: you are lying.
Second is: you made a mistake somewhere in the process

And how the flying cow did every synth nerd/wizard here just ignore the shape and the impossible explanation of that shape ?
I am not even that good with synthesizer programming, i was wrong in the test, but i noticed that there was some unknown variable in the sound.

Free bump.

[edit]
The board is back so i can quote it now:

That patch you analyse has 2 saw detuned...the resultant waveform will be constantly changing due to drifting and detune...of course I didnt use any 'effects'...

Look at when i joined this forum, i am not a total newbie, i have an oscilloscope on most of the time when i am making sounds, so i know what drifting and detune can do to the waveform.


One is your "2 saw detuned" and "of course I didnt use any 'effects'", the other is my 2 saws detuned with no effects.
Same synthesizer.

Really ?

yes really. Unless you have replicated the patch exactly as the one is played there is nothing else to it...the patch has resonance, cutoff w/envelope and is matched closely to the OB8 example 'by ear' - not scope....whatever is happening in the waveform - its the result of Diva processing with no effects.

This was the "Sun is green" part.
And almost the whole board was like "ok, the sun is green if he says so, you evil Mutant stop harassing him about it".

[fluffy_little_something]

While Mutant may have come across a bit unfriendly, I do understand his reasoning. When doing such a comparison which is all about proving how similar both are, it should be fair, i.e. using the same settings and conditions in order to avoid such accusations of cheating. All Mutant said was that the specs stated did not yield the signal shown on the diagram, and he was right, obviously. Using that triangle to warm things up almost amounts to using an effect in my view.

The sound/patch is rather simple so that Mutant certainly does not need anyone else to provide him with that patch.

a bit unfriendly?

anyway... if Diva were presented as an OB emulation, then there would be some reasonable expectation of using the same settings to get the same sound. However it isn't and that expectation is ridiculous. The OP can use whatever settings he wants to create sounds that are similar to his ear... it's his exploration and nobody elses business. If you want to try doing a different experiment, go right ahead. And whatever experiment you do, also would deserve the basic respect of someone who has put a bunch of time into something not being attacked by a bunch of people who haven't... I get rather tired of the agro sideline snipers.

And Mutant wasn't right... he accused the OP of being a liar and suggested it wasn't just Diva and that there were additional effects. Mutant was wrong. It was just Diva.

I think the point was not whether or not he used any external stuff, but whether or not the odd-looking waveform was the result of two saws only as claimed.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4#p6217324
I am not saying he deliberately lied, maybe he simply forgot that he had the triangle on as well. That's OK, but Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

[SWAN808]

Dude... clear your mind and read it again.
The OP stated that it was 2 saw oscillators, i said Divas 2 saw oscillators don't look like that and asked what else he did to that sound to make it look like that.
It was just a question.
And later i explained that the "cheating" thing was not serious and that i forgot to put a proper emoticon there.

Mutant I have some sympathy for your position because you spotted 'something' which you deemed abnormal but maybe went a bit too far to put out there an accusation that I'd processed Diva with something and cheated. You did that actually before I had said it was 2 saw just by looking at the waveform. One might expect if someone is expert enough to accuse someone of cheating based on a waveform analysis - they might be able to identify the effect of an additional Osc...at the end of the day IMO looking as a waveform is not a reliable way to accuse someone...even with a smiley face

Anyway - I accept my role in this because I was away and could not double check it - and after the accusation I did say it was 2 sawtooths. Ive been working on these test sounds for a year - and done many more than were included in the test so I forgot this minor change...

[whyterabbyt]

Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

Yes, if you, like Mutant, selectively ignore the fact that Urs backed up his explanation with a demonstration of being able to do it with only 2 detuned saws.

[Urs]

Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

So he was right in "there's more than two sawtooths". I gave him "more than two sawtooths". That should have confirmed his thesis, no? Why did he refuse it then? - The funny thing is, my first explanation was exactly right. One Triple Osc VCO slightly left of sawtooth *is* sawtooth + hint of triangle

Ah well... the internet. Someone brought donuts to the office today. I'll survive the sufferings of being right and mocked about anyway.

[fluffy_little_something]

Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

Yes, if you, like Mutant, selectively ignore the fact that Urs backed up his explanation with a demonstration of being able to do it with only 2 detuned saws.

The resulting waveform was different if I remember correctly. I am not sure I read all 50+ pages, though.

[Urs]

Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

Yes, if you, like Mutant, selectively ignore the fact that Urs backed up his explanation with a demonstration of being able to do it with only 2 detuned saws.

The resulting waveform was different if I remember correctly. I am not sure I read all 50+ pages, though.

It was just recorded at a different moment of beating between the oscillators and maybe not at the exact same levels. I explained that. I used a shortcut by taking a screenshot from an oscilloscope. In the end that saved less time than rendering an audio file, opening it in an audio editor and scrolling to a moment that fits.

[fluffy_little_something]

Mutant was right when he said the diagram showed more than just two detuned saws and when he refused Urs' explanation.

So he was right in "there's more than two sawtooths". I gave him "more than two sawtooths". That should have confirmed his thesis, no? Why did he refuse it then? - The funny thing is, my first explanation was exactly right. One Triple Osc VCO slightly left of sawtooth *is* sawtooth + hint of triangle

Ah well... the internet. Someone brought donuts to the office today. I'll survive the sufferings of being right and mocked about anyway.

Maybe he wasn't sure what you meant by that (bold), I wasn't, either.

[fluffy_little_something]

Anyway, let's pretend it was all just a big misunderstanding

Isn't it possible to use a simpler osc setting in Diva just like the one on the Oberheim and then compare?!

[Mutant]

Why did he refuse it then?

As i said many times (in different words): Because i believed the OP when he said that it was 2 saws.
2 saws is 2 saws, not 2 saws and 1 triangle or 1 saw and 1 slightly right of saw.
The question was to the OP to explain the strange slope, not to you to prove that it can be done in Diva.

The funny thing is, my first explanation was exactly right. One Triple Osc VCO slightly left of sawtooth *is* sawtooth + hint of triangle

Yes you were right that it can be done this way.
But your attemts ignored what the OP said about how the sound was made, so i disqualified them for that reason.

[Mutant]

One might expect if someone is expert enough to accuse someone of cheating based on a waveform analysis - they might be able to identify the effect of an additional Osc...at the end of the day IMO looking as a waveform is not a reliable way to accuse someone...even with a smiley face

As i said i am not even that good with synthesizers.
And as i said, it is good to use both your ears and eyes when designing sounds.
It is not ears or eyes.

[whyterabbyt]

The resulting waveform was different if I remember correctly. I am not sure I read all 50+ pages, though.

But it was sufficiently alike, since it specifically included the artefacts in the waveform that he had specifically focussed on as the evidence of something 'beyond' Diva's core capabilities.