KVR Audio

cocoazenith · Post by **cocoazenith** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:52 pm

I've had good and bad experiences with NI.

I've drawn a conclusion based on these. It seems like their Support Team from Europe is much faster and reliable than their American counterparts. Every license removal that was dealt by the Berlin office was dealt incredibly fast (1-2 working days) while every license removal that was dealt by the Los Angeles office was annoyingly slow (7-8 working days).

jsp1979 · Post by **jsp1979** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:56 pm

It looks like NI (USA) and the OP are in the same city. Maybe you could just show up?

djpuzzle · Post by **djpuzzle** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:56 pm

masterhiggins wrote:Yeah they can do that I guess. But if a company treats you like that I wouldn't want to do business with them either. Guitar center and Arturia never banned me.

Interestingly enough, I'm banned from musicians friend for using too many coupons. Lol.

rofl

djpuzzle · Post by **djpuzzle** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:59 pm

jsp1979 wrote:It looks like NI (USA) and the OP are in the same city. Maybe you could just show up?

Funny you mention that. I've been in the L.A. office a couple times. Friend used to work there. Now I don't know if it's a good idea. Can you imagine that!? Disgruntled customer showing up at their door? hehehe

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:37 am

djpuzzle wrote:
jsp1979 wrote:It looks like NI (USA) and the OP are in the same city. Maybe you could just show up?
Funny you mention that. I've been in the L.A. office a couple times. Friend used to work there. Now I don't know if it's a good idea. Can you imagine that!? Disgruntled customer showing up at their door? hehehe

Squeakiest wheel there is...

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:16 am

djpuzzle wrote:
masterhiggins wrote: Well see that is the thing. I bought it from zZounds and they have a no return policy with NI because the hardware comes with a software license...

That's just crap and the people you should be pissed at is zZounds for having such a stupid policy. I've returned faulty hardware units (from e.g., Akai, Novation, M-Audio) that were bundled with software licenses to Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, and Sweetwater with absolutely no problems.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:03 pm

This is where the "Who owns the product" issue rears it's ugly head and it's not good for consumers.

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:12 pm

djpuzzle wrote:I bought a Kontrol S8 from zZounds four weeks ago and the thing wouldn't power up.

Other users have reported the same problem earlier this year:
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ns.258886/

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:16 pm

tapper mike wrote:This is where the "Who owns the product" issue rears it's ugly head and it's not good for consumers.

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

This is the computer industry continuing to get away with special pleading, for why there's no warranty, why there's no accountability, and why we don't own anything. The EULA was there, slowly eroding consumer protection, and as I, and a few other people paying attention have said (for years now), bleeding into the rest of the industries. Instead of reeling in the one utterly misbehaved industry, that industry has succeeded in poisoning the other industries.

Why? Most people don't even know any of this. Just a few weeks ago on this computer tech forum, some guy reacted with surprise when told that software comes with zero accountability from the maker as part of the license "agreement". He said "is this common?" It's not just common, it's consistently standard behavior and Bush II laws like the DMCA (and patriot act?) actually made them fully supported and backed by the US government. Obama did nothing to undo it, and actually reinforced Bush-era corporatist shit thrust upon us via the new Mccarthyism that is the war on terrorism. Like the foolish & failed war on drugs, all that's happening is that Americans are LOSING rights and protections they used to have.

The pendulum is not done swinging toward "dystopia" just yet. As far as I'm concerned, this IS the dystopia. If only it would stop before it gets bad enough that it's OBVIOUS to everyone.

Boiling frogs is dead easy when you're a corporatist with political connections and infinite financial resources.

Stay blind at your peril, humanity.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:30 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:Just a few weeks ago on this computer tech forum, some guy reacted with surprise when told that software comes with zero accountability from the maker as part of the license "agreement".

As demonstrated by Camel Audio

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:12 am

Almost all software has "ASIS" (as is) ascribed to the warranty. Meaning you accept the product as it currently is. Even if that state is "Broken" Many software companies are happy to issue refunds on software because it's cheaper then chargebacks. All software credit card purchases can be charged back and in some situations this results in a user retaining software usage illegally. I know I have dealt with situations such as this on a regular basis. So there is that side of the coin.

That being said ..The subscription model for software is just plain stupid (even before we get into tying proprietal software to hardware) The EULA model for what ever protections it could give to consumers is thrown out with the subscription / rental agreement. With the subscription agreement you agree to pay for only the time you use the product. The vendor doesn't have to make the product any better and the moment you decide not to pay you lose. It's like rent-a-center where you rent not to buy but just to rent furniture. No matter how long you rent from then the furniture is never yours.

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:25 am

masterhiggins wrote:Yeah they can do that I guess. But if a company treats you like that I wouldn't want to do business with them either. Guitar center and Arturia never banned me.

Interestingly enough, I'm banned from musicians friend for using too many coupons. Lol.

Serious? How is that possible?

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:30 am

djpuzzle wrote:
masterhiggins wrote:I know it doesn't really help you here. But in the future if you use a credit card for purchasing generally the credit card company can help you out with refund disputes. I've had to use this before with a spark controller that Arturia/guitar center refused to refund or replace. Visa cornholed them into accepting it back.
Well see that is the thing. I bought it from zZounds and they have a no return policy with NI because the hardware comes with a software license so I called zZounds and told them I would dispute the charge and zZounds basically told me they would ban me from future purchases from their site!

I tell ya the whole thing is a hot mess.

That's insane... the price is for the hardware, not the software. The problem is with the hardware, not the software.

Almost all controllers come with software of some sort (LE editions and such). If that is really their policy, I know I won't do business with zZounds. Too much risk, as the OP has demonstrated.

That's just bad business.

Besides there's plenty of other online dealers and deals available for hardware (that come bundled with software).

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:20 am

elxsound wrote:
masterhiggins wrote:Yeah they can do that I guess. But if a company treats you like that I wouldn't want to do business with them either. Guitar center and Arturia never banned me.

Interestingly enough, I'm banned from musicians friend for using too many coupons. Lol.

Serious? How is that possible?

I had a price match gift code (can't remember what it was for) and I entered in one of their website coupons (like "LABORDAYSAVE" or something) and it was considered coupon stacking for them and it's prohibited. I didn't even think about it, but whatever. This happened a couple years ago now. I can no longer order from them. Whenever I place any order, it's automatically closed and my money is refunded. I even called them and asked them why does their cart system allow multiple codes to be used if they don't allow it, but they simply said they'd "get back to" me. Right.

Even though they're owned by Guitar Center or whatever, I can still order from GC. Their invoices even look identical and ship from the same warehouse in KS. No biggie.

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:56 am

I cant even get the Native-Instruments web site to function right on my system for the last few years.

Native Instruments Bad Customer Service