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Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:42 pm

And why isn't Bjarne Stroustrup then the richest man alive ?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:52 pm

So why are Windows, OSX and Android all written in C++

They're not.

Keith99 · Post by **Keith99** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:18 pm

c++ is fast and supports low level operations. Means it tends to be preferred for OSs

Deep Purple · Post by **Deep Purple** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:20 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
So why are Windows, OSX and Android all written in C++
They're not.

I was just going to say that.

chokehold · Post by **chokehold** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:21 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
So why are Windows, OSX and Android all written in C++
They're not.

Right, Windows was clearly made with SynthEdit.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:25 pm

Android is written in several languages, most notably Ansi C for the low level and Java for the applications. There's a little C++ here and there but it's dwarfed by the other two.

OSX is written in a language called Objective-C. There's almost no C++ there, with the exception of a few open source projects included in the code base.

Windows GUI uses C++, the kernel uses Ansi C. Microsoft created a new language C# that they've written a few GUIs in. But they seem to be moving away from that too.

And for the record, C and C++ are completely different languages. Don't let the similarity of the names fool you.

Deep Purple · Post by **Deep Purple** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:28 pm

bmrzycki wrote:Android is written in several languages, most notably Ansi C for the low level and Java for the applications. There's a little C++ here and there but it's dwarfed by the other two.

OSX is written in a language called Objective-C. There's almost no C++ there, with the exception of a few open source projects included in the code base.

Windows GUI uses C++, the kernel uses Ansi C. Microsoft created a new language C# that they've written a few GUIs in. But they seem to be moving away from that too.

And for the record, C and C++ are completely different languages. Don't let the similarity of the names fool you.

I think Windows also has a significant amount of assembly code too. It certainly did in older versions.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:39 pm

bmrzycki wrote:Android: There's a little C++ here and there

OSX There's almost no C++ there

Windows GUI uses C++

OK, so just like the title of this thread implies Android, OSX and Windows all have C++ in them.

So why isn't Stroustrup a Zillionaire?

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:47 pm

If you go look for the copyright notice for the C++ programming language, I'm sure you will find your answer.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:57 pm

Hmm, seeing that C++ is heavily inspired by Simula, a Norwegian creation, seems like we've lost out on a lot of tax money here

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:41 am

Numanoid wrote:OK, so just like the title of this thread implies Android, OSX and Windows all have C++ in them. So why isn't Stroustrup a Zillionaire?

Think of it like this: C++ is English, and programs written in C++ are published novels. t's like asking "In the U.S., why doesn't Merriam-Webster get paid royalties every time someone writes a sentence?" Stroustrup didn't create the tools to convert C++ into something a computer can run. Rather, he created the rules that a program must adhere to to be called C++. Other people came along and created the tools using his ideas. Microsoft still sells their C++ compiler, Apple gives theirs away (but charges $100 a year to put applications in the Apple Store). Android and Linux use open source compilers: software written with licenses that explicitly allow for people to use the software without paying for it.

Some people's goal in life is to become wealthy while others prefer the prestige associated with creating something special. A few very lucky people get both. Stroustrup chose academia which doesn't usually pay much but provides enough to foster the creation of ideas.

Other than that you'd have to ask the man himself why he didn't require people designing things in C++ to pay him every time they did.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:49 am

Numanoid wrote:
bmrzycki wrote:Android: There's a little C++ here and there

OSX There's almost no C++ there

Windows GUI uses C++
OK, so just like the title of this thread implies Android, OSX and Windows all have C++ in them.

Well, no because 'written in C++' doesnt really imply 'only has some small bits written in C++'. You'd expect it at least to be the majority of the code, and for the Windows, OSX and Linux operating system kernels it isnt, and for the OSX and Android APIs and infrastructures it isnt.

And between them Android, OSX and Windows all have C in them. And assembly. And at least one also has significant bits written in Objective-C. And at least one also has significant bits in Java. And at least one also has bits in C#.

So if what you meant was 'why do Windows, OSX and Android all have some bits written in C++' then perhaps your thread title should have been "So why doWindows, OSX and Android all have some bits written in C++"

to which the answer would clearly have been

"because C++ is a programming language"

So why isn't Stroustrup a Zillionaire?

Because in the world where you have to pay the designer of a programming language to be able to use a language theyve made, he would have owed it all in royalties to Kernighan and Ritchie as a derived work.

But in our world, people dont actually have to pay the designer of a programming language to be able to use(*) it. If a programming language designer expected that to happen, noone would bother using that language.

(*)And no that's not the same thing as paying for a compiler or interpreter implementing that language.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:00 am

There is also the small matter of not being able to copyright a programming language because it's functional rather than a creative work. You can only patent elements of the ideas within it, assuming you are operating in territories that allow software patents.

Oracle vs Google might overturn that in the US. The EU has already rejected Oracle's arguments about being able to copyright Java.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:08 am

Numanoid wrote:Hmm, seeing that C++ is heavily inspired by Simula, a Norwegian creation, seems like we've lost out on a lot of tax money here

Well, in that world where you would have to pay the designer of a programming language to be able to use a language theyve designed, it still would also have to be the case that the designer of that language would have to pay some sort of amount to the designers of other languages that they took purely abstract ideas from.

Of course if that were the case, in that world, then that world's Norway would probably owe more money than it made for the abstract ideas that the designers of Simula borrowed, including Hoare's work (which it wouldnt have existed without), and the fact that they based their own language on Algol.

But we're not in that world, so there was no money 'made' to be 'lost' in the first place.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:12 am

Gamma-UT wrote:There is also the small matter of not being able to copyright a programming language because it's functional rather than a creative work. You can only patent elements of the ideas within it, assuming you are operating in territories that allow software patents..

Of course, even if these things were patentable, it would have to be the case that a programming language designer would go out and do so, and then actively enforce those patents.
Which woud be the darwinian equivalent of suicide for any programming language the designer actually wanted people to use.