Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Locked New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS
Diva

Post

david.beholder wrote:
Urs wrote:Oh, the Synthex has analogue envelopes and stuff. I presume the LFO and glide that also acts as a small pitch envelope is digital because the DCOs are digital. The circuit schematics of the Synthex are hard to read. It's a matrix of chips.
AFAIK only pulse is digital and then there are analog waveshapers (different from Juno).
Interesting. I'll have to open it up. The Juno DCO is of course as simple as it ever gets, with a digitally clocked sawtooth core and the usual transformations.
Could you post some sound/waveform examples of this zipper noise some day? I'm really curious.
Sure, will do. However, as much as I dislike it, we still modeled it in Diva. You can just use Diva's Digital envelopes with "Q" for Quantise switched on. Then use fast VCA release on a sound with very low cutoff. Not so fast that it clicks, just so fast that it chirps.

Post

EnGee wrote:
Examigan wrote:
EnGee wrote:
david.beholder wrote:
EnGee wrote: Anyway, there are not many polyphonic analog synths out there less than $1000 (if any).
DSI tetra/used mopho sе, used oberheim matrix 6r, used juno 106, j3xp, jx8p, elektron a4, prava
used? Maybe in your place, but here where I live (and in many parts of the world) the used market is tiny and expensive for polyphonic analog synths.

So, list the new ones under $1000!
Here's one, it's a synth module, but most people here have a MIDI keyboard anyway.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Tetra
Ok, thanks! this is one! I also added one (Pulse 2) , so they are two. Anymore?
So, I'm not wrong, they are not many under $1000, although only Pulse 2 is under NZD $1000 here, and I can't find DSI Tetra!, but let's talk American (i.e. international)
This one is 1 cent under your amount
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BlofeldKB

8)
It is under my fingers now as well :P
It doesn't count, as much as I love it, but no! it is not poly analog.
oops! Yes you're right :dog:

Post

Urs wrote:
david.beholder wrote:And you were asking about xmod on Synthax, right?
I'm just impatient. My newly acquired Synthex should arrive in about two weeks or so. I'll see for myself, was just surprised when the emulation did something that should sound different according to the manual - it actually uses the sawtooth for PW cross mod, not the triangle. Sounds great, but wasn't what I expected.
Haha
Warning, your message might cause panic on Gearslutz and ppl would start sell Synthaxes :) and does it mean that Diva might have Synthex modules some day?

Btw, I'm waiting for gift from Berlin: MFB Dominion 1. I really love demos.
Urs wrote:But d'oh. So many things are not as expected with vintage synths. Our Minimoog for instance has no memory effect on the filter envelope, only on the VCA one. Yet Brok Landers said that the one he got in front of him has an "annoying" amount of it on the filter envelope.
What does "memory effect" mean in this context?
Murderous duck!

Post

chk071 wrote: The question is, when emulating a specific analog synth, can you still hear differences between the analog synth, and the digital emulation of that specific synth.
I think it's proven that we can... except that, many times, the one we find is the best is the emulation :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)

Post

I wanna know, when you are listening to a mix that is ripping your face off and blowing your mind, do you wonder, "is this really analog?"
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

Post

david.beholder wrote:
Urs wrote:
david.beholder wrote:And you were asking about xmod on Synthax, right?
I'm just impatient. My newly acquired Synthex should arrive in about two weeks or so. I'll see for myself, was just surprised when the emulation did something that should sound different according to the manual - it actually uses the sawtooth for PW cross mod, not the triangle. Sounds great, but wasn't what I expected.
Haha
Warning, your message might cause panic on Gearslutz and ppl would start sell Synthaxes :) and does it mean that Diva might have Synthex modules some day?
Hahaha, I hope not (on people selling Synthexes). Mine was incredibly expensive, but comes froma trusted source and was freshly serviced. If everyone starts selling theirs, prices will drop and I'll lose out.

That said, I don't think Diva can do a full emulation. Like The Jupiter 6/8, Diva lacks the ability to layer two sounds. I am however very interested in comparing the various synths with filters using CEM 3320, such as the Pro One, the Synthex, one of our Eurorack modules and whatever else there is. The Synthex has the most elaborate circuitry, I'm curious if that affects the sound. And I always wanted to pimp the Pro One with that circuit.

Also, the DCOs in the Synthex do sound intriguing. Not sure if it makes sense to create a whole new module for it for the sake of "a new model and this time it's a Synthex!" or if we should just add the PW crossmod and ringmode to the existing Dual VCO, for sake of simplicity.

Most of all however, I can't wait to play the Synthex.
Btw, I'm waiting for gift from Berlin: MFB Dominion 1. I really love demos.
Excellent choice. Checked it out during a trade show and found it to be very well designed.
Urs wrote:But d'oh. So many things are not as expected with vintage synths. Our Minimoog for instance has no memory effect on the filter envelope, only on the VCA one. Yet Brok Landers said that the one he got in front of him has an "annoying" amount of it on the filter envelope.
What does "memory effect" mean in this context?
On a Minimoog with short attack and release on, when you play fast, the maximum level when attack goes into decay exceeds the level of a note played from silence. So with fast play you can - to some degree - mimic velocity by "stacking" the volume of multiple notes. It's a bit as if the previous value gets memorized and the new envelope builds on top of that, hence the name… I guess...

Post

Urs wrote: Hahaha, I hope not (on people selling Synthexes). Mine was incredibly expensive, but comes froma trusted source and was freshly serviced. If everyone starts selling theirs, prices will drop and I'll lose out.
Well, I hope price fluctuations wouldn't motivate you to avoid anything from Synthex in u-he synths.
Urs wrote:That said, I don't think Diva can do a full emulation. Like The Jupiter 6/8, Diva lacks the ability to layer two sounds.

Have you ever heared of DAW - easiest way for sounds layering. ;))))) Yes, I saw that video and know about string "reverb" trick, but it's not a point.
Urs wrote:I am however very interested in comparing the various synths with filters using CEM 3320, such as the Pro One, the Synthex, one of our Eurorack modules and whatever else there is. The Synthex has the most elaborate circuitry, I'm curious if that affects the sound. And I always wanted to pimp the Pro One with that circuit.
Would love to see. Really love this page: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php? ... fo.cem3320 it would be nice to have other multimode filter settings.

Btw which SSM chip is pro5r2? And how distant it from 3320?
Urs wrote:Also, the DCOs in the Synthex do sound intriguing. Not sure if it makes sense to create a whole new module for it for the sake of "a new model and this time it's a Synthex!" or if we should just add the PW crossmod and ringmode to the existing Dual VCO, for sake of simplicity.

DCO's are all about clock buses. Say Juno has only one. So it's more like Divide Down string machine with waveshaper and filter per voice. I guess JX8P has two and it improves sound dramatically.
Btw "Dual VCO" definition might not fit well in DCO case.

I surely see logic of Adding just new set of waveforms and phase behavior.
Urs wrote:Most of all however, I can't wait to play the Synthex.
Yes, we all expecting lazer harp video asap :)))))))
1. pre-record
2. play with background tape
3. scratch lazers on post processing
Urs wrote:
Btw, I'm waiting for gift from Berlin: MFB Dominion 1. I really love demos.
Excellent choice. Checked it out during a trade show and found it to be very well designed.
:wink: Thanks.
It's actually next to impossible to get in US. Thanks to Schniders Laden, VATlessness and exchange rates.

I tought you're in friends with MF, for me there are some overlap of mindset in good way.
Urs wrote: On a Minimoog with short attack and release on, when you play fast, the maximum level when attack goes into decay exceeds the level of a note played from silence. So with fast play you can - to some degree - mimic velocity by "stacking" the volume of multiple notes. It's a bit as if the previous value gets memorized and the new envelope builds on top of that, hence the name… I guess...
Ah I see. It's actually should be called legato-crescendo? :)
Murderous duck!

Post

david.beholder wrote:
Urs wrote:I am however very interested in comparing the various synths with filters using CEM 3320, such as the Pro One, the Synthex, one of our Eurorack modules and whatever else there is. The Synthex has the most elaborate circuitry, I'm curious if that affects the sound. And I always wanted to pimp the Pro One with that circuit.
Would love to see. Really love this page: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php? ... fo.cem3320 it would be nice to have other multimode filter settings.

Yes, that page is special. I would be especially interested in the Synthex implementation. It was the one that squeezed the maximum out of that chip. And I also would love to see a module implementing the CEM 3372 (for obvious reasons :wink:)
Fernando (FMR)

Post

CEM3320 was pretty common it seems, used in Linn drum machines, Fairlight, Prophet 5, OB-8/OBX-a, Wave 2...

Post

chk071 wrote:
Asking which is "better", analog or digital, is a false dichotomy, it is exactly the same as asking whether a Fender Rhodes is better than a Yamaha DX7. Like both legendary keyboards, analog and digital recording media have their merits and demerits, each has a particular character, and it is up to the artist and audio engineer to decide which character best suits the needs of the project at hand.
Isn't this quite failing the point?
Yes. Strange intro that does not rhyme with the rest of the article at all.

Post

braj wrote:I wanna know, when you are listening to a mix that is ripping your face off and blowing your mind, do you wonder, "is this really analog?"
If it is a symphony orchestra I'm listening to I most certainly would ask myself this, yes :)

Post

david.beholder wrote:Would love to see. Really love this page: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php? ... fo.cem3320 it would be nice to have other multimode filter settings.
Yes, that page got me thinking a lot about the Synthex.

There are a few companies that use these and other 4-pole filter chips in the State Variable configuration (OB-Xa, Jupiter-6), and some use cascaded one poles to mix whatever filter type they want (Xpander, Matrix12). But to my best knowledge the Synthex is the only synth that switches individual poles to highpass configuration to achieve different topologies. This I think is the main source of curiosity that got me interested. The method of "we can't do FM because it's DCOs, so let's do crossmod PWM" is just the icing on the cake.

IMHO the Synthex is like no other vintage polysynth. Not sure if it's a Diva contender, but I'm very sure that I'll learn a thing or two for my own designs (new Zebra tech).
Btw which SSM chip is pro5r2? And how distant it from 3320?
seems to be the 2040:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEM_and_S ... nthesizers

Interesting bit: Korg Polysix and Opera 6 use same SSM 2044 but have completely different filter sound, I reckon because of different supply voltage used.
I tought you're in friends with MF, for me there are some overlap of mindset in good way.
We've never met… even thoiugh I hang out with some Schneider people during trade shows.

Post

On a side note: I have explored the similar discussions at Gearslutz a little and I must say they are a pile of pretty boring infantile bickering compared to the varied, colorful, wierd, funny, pseudo scientific and wonderfully twisted discussions at KVR. We have really nothing to complain about. KVR is amazing :wheee:

Post

hey,

what was the result now?

i guess A was diva?

Post

IncarnateX wrote:
chk071 wrote:
Asking which is "better", analog or digital, is a false dichotomy, it is exactly the same as asking whether a Fender Rhodes is better than a Yamaha DX7. Like both legendary keyboards, analog and digital recording media have their merits and demerits, each has a particular character, and it is up to the artist and audio engineer to decide which character best suits the needs of the project at hand.
Isn't this quite failing the point?
Yes. Strange intro that does not rhyme with the rest of the article at all.
It makes perfect sense in the context of the paragraph - the point it's making is that the concept of "better" is entirely dependent on what you are trying to do. Ie it's using the Rhodes/DX7 analogy to illustrate the concept of better, not to compare it to analog/digital. And then it says that like those two things, analog and digital both have merits and demerits that can mean one is more appropriate to use for a given task than another.

Locked

Return to “Instruments”