Why not 100% overwritable presets in synths - like organs have?

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Hi

I had a Korg CX-3 organ, and it was perfect thinking all the way.
You can write over all banks and presets as you please.
You have some operation in menu to recall those from ROM, and in CX-3 case even recall a single position factory preset.

Same with digital Hammonds - no wasted space for presets, all reusable.

Why is this not standard in synths, one wonders?


Most seem to agree on that factory presets are just a starting point, and seldom usable as they are. If effects you usually have too much reverb or anything else and you have to waste a user position to write these again.

So synths manufacturers think:
- we want you have these presets occupying space for no reason, it will be less wear on those buttons.

Or something like that.

In the 80's static CMOS rams were still a bit more expensive, but now even flash drives are really cheap.

So why are usually most part factory fixed presets in synths?
Why is not all overwritable?

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lfm wrote:So why are usually most part factory fixed presets in synths?
Why is not all overwritable?
Because when some numpty who didnt read the manual manages to overwrite a factory preset because of their own stupidity, they'll spend the next 15 years on the interwebz bitching about how badly designed the synth is.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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With many of synths it is already possible to overwrite all presets.

For example it is possible in those synths i currently own:
Waldorf Blofeld (8 x 128 = 1024 patches), Waldorf Pulse 2 (500 patches), Waldorf Streichfett (3 x 4 = 12 patches), Novation UltraNova (4 x 128 = 512 patches)

Also had a Moog Slim Phatty with 100 patch memories that could be all overwritten.

Besides that ther seem to be a bunch of other examples including vintage synths (e.g, Jupiter 8, Prophet 5 etc.).
Ingo Weidner
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whyterabbyt wrote:
lfm wrote:So why are usually most part factory fixed presets in synths?
Why is not all overwritable?
Because when some numpty who didnt read the manual manages to overwrite a factory preset because of their own stupidity, they'll spend the next 15 years on the interwebz bitching about how badly designed the synth is.
So organ players are smarter? :D :D
(...grabbing for popcorn..)

I mean they still have recall abilities for factory presets, but all are put in static ram. So there is a copy in rom to copy from, it's just not where the presets are selected.

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Like whyterabbyt stated. All presets can be used as user presets until one restores the factory presets.

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Ingonator wrote:With many of synths it is already possible to overwrite all presets.

For example it is possible in those synths i currently own:
Waldorf Blofeld (8 x 128 = 1024 patches), Waldorf Pulse 2 (500 patches), Waldorf Streichfett (3 x 4 = 12 patches), Novation UltraNova (4 x 128 = 512 patches)

Also had a Moog Slim Phatty with 100 patch memories that could be all overwritten.

Besides that ther seem to be a bunch of other examples including vintage synths (e.g, Jupiter 8, Prophet 5 etc.).
Good info, thanks.

I just don't get why it's not standard as of todays recent synths.

Looking at Roland Boutique, 1/3 to 1/2 is writable.
Yamaha Reface - CS, CP and YC no presets - but DX has all 32 writable.
Korg MS-20 mini and Odyssey - no presets
KingKorg - 1/3 writable

A mystery...

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Hank the Knife wrote:Like whyterabbyt stated. All presets can be used as user presets until one restores the factory presets.
Examples?
- that is not my view at all.

Ingonator gave some examples though.

I would say that most common is only 1/3 to 1/2 is writable.
Looking at Casio, Roland, Korg.
Only had one Yamaha , TX81Z and that was the case too, only some user writable.

Some are like my drum engine, you can modify a fixed preset and but only write to specific user locations.

If you edit the preloaded in user section, yes, they are rewritable.
But usually there are double that amount in banks that are fixed.

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lfm wrote:You have some operation in menu to recall those from ROM, and in CX-3 case even recall a single position factory preset.
Then it's just the same in the organ,though not as obvious, as it is in the synth,no ?

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jupiter8 wrote:
lfm wrote:You have some operation in menu to recall those from ROM, and in CX-3 case even recall a single position factory preset.
Then it's just the same in the organ,though not as obvious, as it is in the synth,no ?
As I recall - only for the user locations - the fixed locations are fixed.
There is a factory preset for user locations too.

My JV-80 - two banks A/B fixed, one bank user internal memory and one bank if you have memory cartridge inserted.
Same with CZ1000, that was my first synth 1985.
I think D50 were the same.
KingKorg - 200 in rom, 100 user ram.

If you've got something called user locations at all, I think this is the case.

If all are user locations, why call only part of banks user.

I would love to be proven wrong, especially getting a KingKorg soon

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@lfm
You are right, you cannot tweak the presets of some old synths. Well, you can tweak them but not store them at the same location.

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Will it's not something inherent in the design of a synth as opposed to an organ. It's a design choice. On some synths you can up/download presets to the internet straight from the machine making such problems a thing of the past.

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jupiter8 wrote: It's a design choice.
And this thread is about - why is that choice made to have majority of locations fixed, not writable?

For me discovering a new synth is using up loads of locations with intermediate sounds that go in different directions.

I remember having the Nord Rack 2 ten years ago I bought two cartridges due to that only 40 user locations.

And prefer not being plugged in - just me and the synth resting on arm rests, feet on the table and very comfortable position.

KingKorg 100 user locations is not bad, but I wonder why not all 300 locations writeable.

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lfm wrote:I remember having the Nord Rack 2 ten years ago I bought two cartridges due to that only 40 user locations.
That must have been some technical limitation as it's not the case with the Rack 2X

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shadowdancerbnr wrote:
lfm wrote:I remember having the Nord Rack 2 ten years ago I bought two cartridges due to that only 40 user locations.
That must have been some technical limitation as it's not the case with the Rack 2X
Thanks, very true. Been looking at NL2X now for some time, if it has hundreds of user locations - so if to use sysex in between it's nothing major.

Talked yesterday with a music store that have one new still, and it's a bit more (about $300) expensive than KingKorg, and you can get NL3 used for the same price just about - but very rare.

Many things that are interesting about KingKorg, the different Oberheim, Moog and Prophet inspired filter emulations, and vast amount of modulation routing options through virtual patches.

But NL sounds lovely, don't know until I get KK how it feels. KK did not get overwhelming good reviews - but one never knows how that works. When looking at videogames, reviews often consider sequels in how large improvement they are from earlier - and can completely bash a new game because it's not enough improved, too much like the earlier - which could have top grade. So wasn't KK enough improvement from earlier Korg's?

When it comes to Korg, KK would be my first Korg and I have nothing to compare to apart from other brands. But will use 30 day return policy if not to liking.

But a NL2X at the right price and I probably go for it - good stuff.
Not much sold used in sweden, much more in Denmark I noticed. So living right across the water from Denmark that might be where to look for used ones.

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@lfm
The KK has actually good reviews. The minor point is: its keybed is weak. That's why it dropped in price significantly since its introduction.

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