Heads-up to soundware vendors: Soundware sharks preying on newbies.

For discussion and announcements of soundware - patches, presets, soundsets, soundbanks, loop libraries, construction kits, MIDI libraries, etc.
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Xenos wrote:
SampleScience wrote:Would it be possible to know who steal the work (those soundware sharks) in order to avoid buying from them?
Paul Wise Beats - Sylenth - Black and Blue
Trey Lewis- Massive- OVO Inspired
Trey Lewis- Massive -Urban Waves
Kilomash/UltraSound -Massive - TurnUp Vol. 2

Those I know for sure. But that may well be just the tip of the iceberg.
I distribute myself so it's important for me to know them. Thanks!

Post

SampleScience wrote:
I distribute myself so it's important for me to know them. Thanks!

No problem :). I really didn't want to name names, but it was only a matter of time before somebody asked.

Just a heads-up, but I'm told this kind of stuff is rampant in the EDM community, too.
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more

Post

I did not read all comments in this thread but I have been thinking about the same topic many times. I am not a sound designer (yet) except that I design the sounds I need, when I need them. I been thinking some times if I should give it a try, but on a hobby level. I also bought presets from others and mainly from Ayin Zahev who is my big role model when it comes to sound design. I often study how he did his work and how he designed the different sounds. It is a bit like a cook going to cooking school to become a chef. I don't Think I will ever be as good as Ayin but by studing his ways my sounds will be somewhat similar in character. And now to my thoughts.

If I learn by studying, let's say Ayin, and I use some ways to tweak the sound as he normally does, how can he then 100% say that he did not make the sound? I would of course be honnored if he claimed that my work is his doing, but it would still be a problem for me. Just for Sylenth alone I came across many presets from different people that sounds pretty much the same.

If I take a preset that Ayin already created and tweak it to give it a slightly different character, is that stealing? Where is the limit?

There are many sound designers out there that create very nice work and for sure they deserve all the Money and compensation they can get, and they also all protection they can get. So Before anyone might get offended by my thoughts I want to make it clear that I am the strongest advocate for copy rights. But as Always there is a fine line between right and wrong and my thoughts are based on what should be the definition of right or wrong in this particular case.

For sure I hope there will be some way to stop sound Sharks, and especially those who just copy and paste, so that the real talents get the compensation they deserve. It is thanks to them that we have a better sounding World.
Win 10 -64bit, CPU i7-7700K, 32Gb, Focusrite 2i2, FL-studio 20, Studio One 4, Reason 10

Post

This topic is so confusing.

On the one hand, you have people like Xenos, Rob Lee, Aiyn Zahev, Big Tone etc.... All people from whom I have purchased sounds I absolutely love. Once I purchase them, I hide in a dark corner all by myself and enjoy the shit out of them. I do this because apparently, I can't be a songwriter/composer if I use presets, so I keep it a secret (actually I don't, but I'm going for a point here). I have to learn, master, and have innate talent designing sounds using FM, additive, subtractive before I can even dream of writing a song.

On the other hand, everyone is selling presets like they're going out of style. I recently bought Spire and I must get an email every week about multiple sound packs coming out for it. So, either there are six guys who only write songs with their own patches, or there are many of us too embarrassed to admit publicly that we're your customers.

I hope you guys work it out. I hope you guys get paid. I hope synth makers continue to get paid. I will say this though, I have a few great synths (Octopus, Blue II) with very few presets. I don't use them much because, well, I'm not a friggin sound designer. So, I'm very willing to let the experts do their thing so I can get back to writing.

I'll sum it up like this. I'm not so sure that an official "club" is going to work for reasons mentioned before. However, maybe a bunch of you guys could form a coalition. We already know who the "elite" sound designers are. I mentioned several of them at the beginning of my post. I could safely, and blindly, buy a new bank from any of them and know what I'm getting. Maybe you guys just pal up, create a website that distributes the work of four or five of you and see how that goes? Maybe it turns into a club. Maybe it's just the most awesome collection of sounds in the universe in one place? The shamed masses will come to there to drown our sorrows in your patches.

I'm going back to my dark corner now to play. Don't tell anybody.

Post

Hire a few developers to design something like spire, but have it use a protected preset system.

I think this might have been one of the reasons REFX made nexus in partnership with Vengeance.
:borg:

Post

oxygenmask wrote:This topic is so confusing.

On the one hand, you have people like Xenos, Rob Lee, Aiyn Zahev, Big Tone etc.... All people from whom I have purchased sounds I absolutely love. Once I purchase them, I hide in a dark corner all by myself and enjoy the shit out of them. I do this because apparently, I can't be a songwriter/composer if I use presets, so I keep it a secret (actually I don't, but I'm going for a point here). I have to learn, master, and have innate talent designing sounds using FM, additive, subtractive before I can even dream of writing a song.

On the other hand, everyone is selling presets like they're going out of style. I recently bought Spire and I must get an email every week about multiple sound packs coming out for it. So, either there are six guys who only write songs with their own patches, or there are many of us too embarrassed to admit publicly that we're your customers.

I hope you guys work it out. I hope you guys get paid. I hope synth makers continue to get paid. I will say this though, I have a few great synths (Octopus, Blue II) with very few presets. I don't use them much because, well, I'm not a friggin sound designer. So, I'm very willing to let the experts do their thing so I can get back to writing.

I'll sum it up like this. I'm not so sure that an official "club" is going to work for reasons mentioned before. However, maybe a bunch of you guys could form a coalition. We already know who the "elite" sound designers are. I mentioned several of them at the beginning of my post. I could safely, and blindly, buy a new bank from any of them and know what I'm getting. Maybe you guys just pal up, create a website that distributes the work of four or five of you and see how that goes? Maybe it turns into a club. Maybe it's just the most awesome collection of sounds in the universe in one place? The shamed masses will come to there to drown our sorrows in your patches.

I'm going back to my dark corner now to play. Don't tell anybody.
I also use presets, though I know many who are "preset snobs". I don't mind saying publicly that I've used presets from Ridan/Colorverse Audio, OhmLab/SoundFreqs, Prime Loops and others.

I'm still not sure what the overall form of this "club"/coalition/consortium/confederation would be...but will there be a place to call out those sharks on the website (or even just in a forum like this)? Just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe that's all you really need to do: post, in a public and highly visible forum, who has been "caught" selling your presets under his name. All you'd have to list is the shark's name and the preset(s) in question, and maybe how they're the same and any other pertinent information (where you found the item for sale, etc.).

I'm not trying to put the brakes on the momentum this is gaining, but it seems to me that just calling out the losers who steal would be enough to shame them from continuing to do it. It would also alert the rest of us not to buy from them. This would explicitly call out the sharks, which would be more effective in cutting into their business. And if you do it in a logical manner (without saying anything else about them personally, or anything not related to your proof that the presets are the same), there would be no legal issues. You wouldn't have to claim they "stole" anything; just provide the proof and let those of us who have the presets compare them for ourselves and back up your claim.

Again, I'm not trying to put the brakes on this. I just think a simpler, easier (and generally far more accepted) way of treating those who steal (or do anything wrong) is to call them out. (And then stone them, if everyone's up for it. If not, we can just put their names on a list.) Circling the wagons and making a club is fine, but with no "central command" or anyone moderating it, I can see it devolving quickly.

On the other hand, you could have the forum started on KVR 15 minutes from now, and let everyone post. You could also link to it from your individual websites and/or Facebook, and/or Twitter (whenever a new "shark" is found): "Beware of the sharks!"...and then a link to this thread.

Eenywho...that's just my 12¢. (Would have just been 2¢, but I couldn't shut up once I got started. So....)

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

Post

A lot has changed since the original post (was pretty upset when it was written. The "club" is definitely gonna happen. Really glad all the flaws and negatives were pointed out, because it has to be a club sound designers WANT to join. Here's what we've come up with so far:

- invitation only, and members are welcome to invite others who fit certain qualifications, which will be made clear.

- no review process needed for admission, as there is quite a large list of people we already KNOW are legit.

- each member would have their own page, with links to members' own websites. That way visitors can purchase from them directly. The club is not a store, just a vouch system. No commissions, fees or any of that BS.

- I'm hoping the club would encourage more collab projects. I've been asked by other designers to do this, and think its a great idea. Ecourages comradie between members in an industry that is clearly much more cutthroat than it used to be, plus we both learn from each other.

- I've asked not to have membership fees. That scares people away.

So far, that's where we're at. This isnt about actively going after people or blacklisting them, just separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. An indirect approach to the plagiarism problem -starving the sharks of their credibility-, rather than a direct/militant/litigatious one.
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more

Post

Xenos wrote:One other thing, guys... been giving everything more thought. Voting should be voluntary, not "forced". We should have incentives to encourage people to vote. I'm looking for ideas to make things less tedious for members. Voting on and reviewing submissions IS important, though. We have to make sure people are not trying to submit OUR work. If sharks became members, the whole point of the club would be rendered impotent.

What do people think of this idea: The first phase of membership should be by invitation only, just to make sure we have a solid, starting foundation of truly original, quality artists. I vote to include the following artists on board:

Yemski
Leap Into The Void
TwoLegs Toneworks
BigTone
Kevin Shroeder
Monomo Sound
CFA-Sound
Ed Ten Eck
...and there's more, but that's what I can think of right now.

It's important to have some established names on board with us. Credibility of this organization would be VERY important!
Could you add Biome Digital Ltd too please, considering I have soundpacks for sale on Elektron website and just signed a contract with Propellerheads! ;) Not to mention all the other sites I sell on like ADSR Sounds and Producer loops and of course www.BiomeDigital.com.

Plus I know Twolegs. :help: :hihi:

Post

Karten wrote:Okay guys, I'll get the ball rolling.

I've read what has been written since my first post and think it's a good idea to have such a club as long as it's easily managable.

So I've registered www.cisda.org which stands for Creative Indie Sound Designers Association.
For the name, I chose something that made sense: It's about original work by indie devs who try to make some money with their hard work.
And CISDA is also easy to pronounce.

Now where do we go from here? Who wants to join? What requirements should we implement?
I can also start another thread to discuss all that.
Thanks for your input.
Whats an "Indie"??! Technically my label is a corporation so not sure "Indie" is the best word to use is it? Maybe something like "Accredited Sound Designers Association" (ASDA), ha! Thats brilliant... I am off to register ASDA.com, BRB...

:hihi: :hihi:




:dog:

Post

Xenos wrote:
SampleScience wrote:Would it be possible to know who steal the work (those soundware sharks) in order to avoid buying from them?
Paul Wise Beats - Sylenth - Black and Blue
Trey Lewis- Massive- OVO Inspired
Trey Lewis- Massive -Urban Waves
Kilomash/UltraSound -Massive - TurnUp Vol. 2

Those I know for sure. But that may well be just the tip of the iceberg.
Xenos,

Did you report these to ADSR and other sites? I bought a Trey Lewis bank there and I was going to leave a review about the stealing but I couldn't find them on the site. The tags in the bank I bought (Just Chill) were very erratically tagged, which would support the fact that they might have been taken from a number of different sources.

Post

jsp1979 wrote:
Xenos wrote:
SampleScience wrote:Would it be possible to know who steal the work (those soundware sharks) in order to avoid buying from them?
Paul Wise Beats - Sylenth - Black and Blue
Trey Lewis- Massive- OVO Inspired
Trey Lewis- Massive -Urban Waves
Kilomash/UltraSound -Massive - TurnUp Vol. 2

Those I know for sure. But that may well be just the tip of the iceberg.
Xenos,

Did you report these to ADSR and other sites? I bought a Trey Lewis bank there and I was going to leave a review about the stealing but I couldn't find them on the site. The tags in the bank I bought (Just Chill) were very erratically tagged, which would support the fact that they might have been taken from a number of different sources.
I did mention it to them and they investigated. Looks like that seller was banned.
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more

Post

Xenos wrote:
I did mention it to them and they investigated. Looks like that seller was banned.
Good for them. They sell a lot of different packs there so it would be easy for them to just "let it go."

Post

I'm not a designer and never will be. I use presets and would love to see an industry endorsed site for designers. As a customer, I would like to see the synth owners endorse this on their sites, social media etc.

I like the idea of a page for each designer, with links to their sites, but would also like to see a "by instrument" page.

+1 for not liking the term "indie".
HPZ2 i9 32RAM, Macbook Pro M1, Studio One, FL, Ableton, Sibelius, BIAB

Post

beegee wrote:I'm not a designer and never will be. I use presets and would love to see an industry endorsed site for designers. As a customer, I would like to see the synth owners endorse this on their sites, social media etc.

I like the idea of a page for each designer, with links to their sites, but would also like to see a "by instrument" page.

+1 for not liking the term "indie".
I, too, thought the term "indie" sounded "second rate", and suggested "independent" instead. Thanks a lot for the input and suggestions :). Still going though with this idea, but pretty busy with 3rd party work at the moment. Synth owners and social media? I made a note of that for you, and gonna pass on this idea to the web designer. I'm assuming you mean the synth developers as well?
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more

Post

beegee wrote: I like the idea of a page for each designer, with links to their sites, but would also like to see a "by instrument" page.

+1 for not liking the term "indie".
I intend to have a page with a general list of the members as well as a list by instrument.
The thing is that I have very limited database skills (and time to learn) so it'll have to be done manually.
And "independent" it will be. :wink:
Xenos wrote:I made a note of that for you, and gonna pass on this idea to the web designer.
No need to as I closely watch this thread.

For everyone else, CISDA is coming together nicely. We already have the domain name, the logo, a comprehensive list of potential members and more importantly a very clear idea of what we want to do with it.
Stay tuned...
Last edited by Ghostwave on Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Free banks for soft synths | ghostwave.fr | soundcloud.com/ghostwaveaudio

Post Reply

Return to “Soundware”