KVR Audio

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:12 pm

I'd like to see Omnisphere and Dune in the NKS partner list.

I notice U-he have already got in early.

Seeing my fave plugs working in Komplete Kontrol 1.5 might even convince me to buy it.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:32 pm

I think at this point, we have to think company first, product second.
As with the two you mentioned, it will be interesting to see how fast they choose to comply and which of their products they implement it on.
i.e. We may see Spectrasonics implement it on all three of their flagships OR only two while holding off on Stylus-RMX until they do the much 'clamored for' version upgrade. So too, Synapse may choose to leave Dune 1 behind on this and only write for 2? Other companies that have recently 'retired' some of their products may in fact be streamlining their offerings as a result of this.
One thing I've noticed over the years is how much more often I hear that Native has set and is the industry standard in so many ways (granted, most of those statements are usually surrounding something to do with Kontakt). But it does show that someone is at least thinking about what the standard could be (and thankfully, they aren't alone).
Looking at what I have on my system, I wonder more of who will not respond or respond only partially to this and what will be effectively left behind because of it.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:40 pm

Waldorf, Xils-Lab, Arturia, U-He, Heaviocity and ProjectSam are in, so some of my fav instruments will be there.

I'm not sure a lot of small developpers, and even some bigger ones, will jump in the wagon however, because this would mean complying with -another- standard, deal with the sdk etc etc.

But its good for those who can, and opening the format to 3rd party VST is good for NI as well.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:43 pm

Nothing will be left behind, well maybe just NI, they have never ever defined a 'standard' as you put it, they have the industry standard rompler playback engine (Kontakt) other than that up to this point, most of what they do to 'define things' has been encrypted.
They have zero defining standards ala VST/AU/AAAX/Rex/ASIO/Rewire, and this does little to change this.
Kore = work woth any VST and is superpowerful
NKS = basically Maschines browser which is ok for samples but terrible for pretty much everything else and has non of the power of Kore....Oh wait you need to recode your plugins too (non of the so called partners have shown or indeed even announced supporting it, remember the buzz for Reason plugins that dwindled)

This is a huge fail that not only generates zero interest in the public (look how busy this thread is) but very little interest in developers too, epic fail.

OzoneJunkie · Post by **OzoneJunkie** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:49 pm

I don't know, seems like a good thing to me. Especially if the 3rd party plugins are automapping various parameters to the controllers. How can that be bad?

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:06 pm

The bad part is expecting 3rd parties to modify their plugins to fit your business model.
The 3rd party gains no new sale (only previous customers will be asking for this update) and no new income but NI does, you think this is going to be a hugely succesful model ?

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:29 pm

Well, it will be a standard, but not necessarily the standard.
And there will probably be those that choose to specifically not be part of it.
Was just considering this while looking at the Eduardo Tarilonte libraries in the auction and thinking the reason I don't consider having them now is because he abandoned the NI format in quite a few of his products. Doesn't mean they are any less of what they are, just that they require something different now.
But again, it will come down to each company choosing which of their own products they decide to take the time and effort in writing an additional file for. We've already seen many companies not writing drivers or otherwise updating the software simply because it's "not worth their time" or they really want you to buy something new of theirs instead. For instance, my Izotope Iris 2 will most likely be implemented, but Iris 1 may not. Of course this means my beloved Alchemy 1 has just earned a new level of isolation also.
e.g. How Tone 2 will respond remains to be seen and at least 3 out of their five synths seem deem-able to add. Will some of the smaller already behind schedule companies be able to catch up? I think many of them will see it as a necessity to stay relative in the market. How will Steinberg jump on this, considering they are another one that has set 'standards' and have had to diligently work to keep them as a relevant standard in cross-platform OS?
And it may be something that many companies will eventually implement, but not until they can package it in to another version upgrade they can charge for.

Personally, I see this as a good thing though. And some of these rumblings remind me of when MIDI was first being discussed in the early eighties.

OzoneJunkie · Post by **OzoneJunkie** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:11 pm

bungle wrote:The bad part is expecting 3rd parties to modify their plugins to fit your business model.
The 3rd party gains no new sale (only previous customers will be asking for this update) and no new income but NI does, you think this is going to be a hugely succesful model ?

If the NI controllers are successful, then 3rd party companies *may* gain new sales for their plugins if they are compatible with the NI standard. If someone is shopping for a new plugin, and it's compatible, it may sway their decision. Or not.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:18 pm

Lotuzia wrote:Waldorf, Xils-Lab, Arturia, U-He, Heaviocity and ProjectSam are in, so some of my fav instruments will be there.

I'm not sure a lot of small developpers, and even some bigger ones, will jump in the wagon however, because this would mean complying with -another- standard, deal with the sdk etc etc.

But its good for those who can, and opening the format to 3rd party VST is good for NI as well.

Exactly, NKS is not a requirement, Kontrol will still support ordinary VST plugins. NKS is for those that want to take full advantage of integration into Komplete (lightguide, browser presets etc). It makes sense for integration at that level to require adherence to certain standards to ensure full interoperability.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:24 pm

Actually it is nothing like MIDI or VST or any other standard, it is not a standard, it is just extra extensions to a standard or standards, IE VST/AU.
This has literally no chance of surviving simply because NI do not want a standardized system, that i assume is because they have zero faith in their hardware.
For it to become standard it would have to be open ended and allow other developers to create hardware that used the same said standard for their controllers (talking about MIDI where you) this would get every software developer on board, but NI have no interest in this at all, they just want everybody else to adhere to their current wetdream (we shall not be forgetting Kore thank you very much, their record has to be taken in to account here, especially considering the time investment asked of 3rd parties)

Lets be perfectly clear here, NI do nothing, and i mean nothing to make users lives better or 3rd parties lives better with this nonsense, lets take a look at some of their other browsing issues...

Libraries on Kontakt have to be encrypted (Pay NI a hell of a lot) and just in terms of user interaction this is a complete pain, because the other way of browsing in Kontakt is archaic at best, yet the reality is this, outside of orchestral packages, the best add ons for Kontakt are unencrypted, browser fail

Expansions in Maschine are basically not expansions unless they are released by NI, you cant have an image for any of the sections, the folder aliasing is beyond archaic, and again all the best add ons are not by NI, not exactly a complete browser fail, but lets take features away to annoy the shit out of our own users.

Kore lets not even go there

Even a simple browser like Massive, could be really really useful, oh wait, you cant add your own attributes, browser fail

Their experience and past work in the area of browsers is terrible at best, it actually looks like they nailed a starting point with Kore, then some bright young thing turned round and said "Wait, this is user friendly and doesn't actually need much updating, we can't make continual tiny increments to this and claim it needs new hardware to work" so they reinvented the wheel and made it square (Kontrol) now they can spend the next few years chipping at it to make it round, each little chip needing some new hardware or some other payware, and just before they get it perfectly round, they will reinvent it and make it a triangle.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my Kore, I love my Maschine and i love my KU, but this overpriced nonsense, dead in the water.

@Amused, can you please point to where it says that NKS is not a requirement ?
Maybe the developers i have been chatting to about this have misunderstood, from what they have read and are saying, NKS is very much a requirement, for being controlled by the Kontroller in any meaningful way, thanks for any links.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:26 pm

Total connectivity – NKS for superior plug-in integration, plus full VST, DAW and hardware control

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... -s-series/

So NKS for fullest integration, but still full VST support too.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:28 pm

A 10 year old idea resurrected, it's like Kore all over again aint it?

It allows VST and KONTAKT instrument developers to integrate their plug-ins with KOMPLETE KONTROL and MASCHINE at the same deep level as KOMPLETE Instruments.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:31 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Total connectivity – NKS for superior plug-in integration, plus full VST, DAW and hardware control
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... -s-series/

So NKS for fullest integration, but still full VST support too.

So basically no proof then, because on that page all it says for VST is this
Native Browser – Browse and load your entire library of KOMPLETE and VST instruments from a single, unified interface.

And for NKS
Native Map® technology automatically maps all key parameters for each KOMPLETE or NKS instrument to the touch-sensitive controller knobs.

So you are assuming a lot, because those just say that you can browse and load VST, but to automap them it has to be NKS.

Lets be perfectly clear here, with automapping, this is any old keyboard with dials (Awesome Fatar keybed not with standing)

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:32 pm

Other companies have tried that approach already, for example Reaper and StudioOne have specific extensions that plugin developers can support, giving better integration with the DAW.

How many plugins support these ? less than 0.1%....

As for full VST support in KK, as I said before, many plugins don't support such basic features as providing patch names. This was a major PITA for VIP/Advance, so I'm curious to see how NI deals with it.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:32 pm

I wish! - long way to go to get back to Kore level of functionality. But the potential of integrating plugins into KK is promising, especially for those plugins whose preset management leaves something to be desired.

Is your favourite plug included Komplete Kontrol 1.5?