Is your favourite plug included Komplete Kontrol 1.5?

[aMUSEd]

Total connectivity – NKS for superior plug-in integration, plus full VST, DAW and hardware control

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... -s-series/

So NKS for fullest integration, but still full VST support too.

So basically no proof then, because on that page all it says for VST is this
Native Browser – Browse and load your entire library of KOMPLETE and VST instruments from a single, unified interface.

And for NKS
Native Map® technology automatically maps all key parameters for each KOMPLETE or NKS instrument to the touch-sensitive controller knobs.

So you are assuming a lot, because those just say that you can browse and load VST, but to automap them it has to be NKS.

Lets be perfectly clear here, with automapping, this is any old keyboard with dials (Awesome Fatar keybed not with standing)

You wanted to know where it says NKS is not a requirement, this says that. As for the level of control you would have, no it doesn't say there (although you added that requirement after I posted) but I am not assuming anything. At the moment you can control VST plugins and edit their params in Maschine can't you? I'd expect something similar.

[aMUSEd]

btw there is discussion of how this is done in Maschine here

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... st-1427280

OK and more on VST support here

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... whats-new/

VST COMPATIBILITY
1.5 also introduces VST compatibility, offering full integration of third-party VST instruments with the KOMPLETE KONTROL software for easy browsing, custom tagging, and creating personalized parameter mappings for S-Series keyboards.

So it looks like what you can do is load them, tag them, create custom controller mappings and control them with the hardware. For other stuff like lightguide and full browser integration of presets that's where NKS comes in.

[bungle]

Other companies have tried that approach already, for example Reaper and StudioOne have specific extensions that plugin developers can support, giving better integration with the DAW.

How many plugins support these ? less than 0.1%....

As for full VST support in KK, as I said before, many plugins don't support such basic features as providing patch names. This was a major PITA for VIP/Advance, so I'm curious to see how NI deals with it.

They wont deal with it, we already know they are running around like loons trying to catch up with your software, Kontrol is already a dead duck, they where left with 1 of 2 options, they either grumbled on with this poor design decision to save face or just abandonded it, unfortunately because of Kore they couldn't just abandon it again, now they are stuck in no mans land with a very poor product that if you take the keybed out of the equation, is simply put, a complete and utter pile of garbage compared to VIP, and unfortunately for NI, that is exactly what the suppliers/outlets are saying too.

Add FX support in to VIP and then create a 16 dial desktop unit, that would be a standard unit in studios across the planet, it is all well and good keeping synth players happy, but good effect control during mixdown is still out of reach, and with a keyboard attached, no thanks.

[bungle]

@Amused
Have you ever even used Maschine hahaha, it is terrible with VST mapping, trust me, you have to make your own maps and save them or you will be confronted with unintelligable names and page after page of mixed up nonsense.
Yes it is great once you set up the mapping, but then so is every other MIDI controller in my set up, manual mapping is not what anybody thinks of with Kontrol or VIP.

Hey if you are happy to pay over the odds for a keyboard that only browses and loads VST as standard, good for you, most of us expect a lot more for our hard earned money.

[aMUSEd]

@Amused
Have you ever even used Maschine hahaha, it is terrible with VST mapping, trust me, you have to make your own maps and save them or you will be confronted with unintelligable names and page after page of mixed up nonsense.
Yes it is great once you set up the mapping, but then so is every other MIDI controller in my set up, manual mapping is not what anybody thinks of with Kontrol or VIP.

Hey if you are happy to pay over the odds for a keyboard that only browses and loads VST as standard, good for you, most of us expect a lot more for our hard earned money.

I'm not - I have Kore 2 - much better than anything else, still. Although even then you have to create your own mappings to get it perfect, but much of this is (some) devs using thoughtless automation param names and illogical organization, not really NI's fault.

[bungle]

Agreed, Kore 2 is way better, but i still don't agree with NKS forcing 3rd party development, VIP is the next logical step from Kore 2 at this point (Not that i would touch it without effects support and way more dials, what is with the current 8 dials is enough nonsense)

[Numanoid]

Hey if you are happy to pay over the odds for a keyboard that only browses and loads VST as standard, good for you, most of us expect a lot more for our hard earned money.

Maybe it will ship with some exclusive NKS content, from u-he, Arturia or the others?

I mean, u-he just made a custom version of Bazille for magware, so it is not uncommon that special editions of software is made for new formats to get it going.

[aMUSEd]

Agreed, Kore 2 is way better, but i still don't agree with NKS forcing 3rd party development, VIP is the next logical step from Kore 2 at this point (Not that i would touch it without effects support and way more dials, what is with the current 8 dials is enough nonsense)

As I said I would much prefer that:

1) Developers put more thought into which params get automatically exposed to hosts, named and organised them in meaningful ways. Some do well (eg Alchemy always shows its performamce and morph controls at the top level) but some just use stupid names or worse, numbers, and have stuff all over the place.

2) All plugins adhered to some basic standards of how they expose presets and preset names to a host, so that when subhosts like Kore and Advance get developed it is much easier to import their presets (without having to resort to workarounds like NKS). Linplug do well here, managing to stay within basic VST conventions while still having decent browsers, but others like Soundtoys and Arturia do not.

[loachm]

@ Bungle: well, I have similar feelings towards NI regarding plug-in mapping and handling of presets. The way it is done in Maschine right now is unacceptable. However, there really isn't much info about the NKS format or the KK update yet and how it will work in practice, so I'd give them the benefit of a doubt.

I'm not so sure about the VIP software, as I recall that it only offers 64 controllers per mapping. It could have changed by now, but if not, it's not much for controlling a synth, so I guess, it's rather geared towards being a performance controller.

I didn't quite get what NKS actually is - is it just a file extention like KSD was? Or ist it something else?
I really hope, that this NKS thing will be something that'll provide what the Nektar folks are doing, i.e. controlling a plug-in directly without any wrapper. Nektar does it on the host level, which is difficult as some hosts don't provide the access they need. So - IF (!) NKS is what I hope - I think, it's quite smart to offer something to implement into your plug-in, so that it will work with the controller no matter what DAW you're working with and without a wrapper. But if it's just the file extention of KK, which would be another wrapper, then no, thanks...

the other way of browsing in Kontakt is archaic at best, yet the reality is this, outside of orchestral packages, the best add ons for Kontakt are unencrypted, browser fail

...don't think this is true. Quick Launch is a joy to work with and the tagging options in Kontakt's browser are quite advanced - I don't really care much for the Kontakt Instruments' library tab.

If you're looking for an interesting library manager for Kontakt (et al.), have a look at this one...

http://hypercube-softwares.duckdns.org/ ... ch-finder/

[loachm]

As I said I would much prefer that:

1) Developers put more thought into which params get automatically exposed to hosts, named and organised them in meaningful ways. Some do well (eg Alchemy always shows its performamce and morph controls at the top level) but some just use stupid names or worse, numbers, and have stuff all over the place.

2) All plugins adhered to some basic standards of how they expose presets and preset names to a host, so that when subhosts like Kore and Advance get developed it is much easier to import their presets (without having to resort to workarounds like NKS). Linplug do well here, managing to stay within basic VST conventions while still having decent browsers, but others like Soundtoys and Arturia do not.

+1000!

....however, in my experience Linplug doesn't do so well (still Spekral currently is one of the most exciting synths!!). But while I was demoing I tried to map its controls in Maschine and I noticed that every effect control has it's own automation ID in every effect slot, thus creating an unneccessay amount of controls. Has that changed?

[rod_zero]

Agreed, Kore 2 is way better, but i still don't agree with NKS forcing 3rd party development, VIP is the next logical step from Kore 2 at this point (Not that i would touch it without effects support and way more dials, what is with the current 8 dials is enough nonsense)

As I said I would much prefer that:

1) Developers put more thought into which params get automatically exposed to hosts, named and organised them in meaningful ways. Some do well (eg Alchemy always shows its performamce and morph controls at the top level) but some just use stupid names or worse, numbers, and have stuff all over the place.

2) All plugins adhered to some basic standards of how they expose presets and preset names to a host, so that when subhosts like Kore and Advance get developed it is much easier to import their presets (without having to resort to workarounds like NKS). Linplug do well here, managing to stay within basic VST conventions while still having decent browsers, but others like Soundtoys and Arturia do not.

Just this.

As for VIP vs KK. Who wants to bet on which is supported longer? I bet on KK.

[aMUSEd]

As I said I would much prefer that:

1) Developers put more thought into which params get automatically exposed to hosts, named and organised them in meaningful ways. Some do well (eg Alchemy always shows its performamce and morph controls at the top level) but some just use stupid names or worse, numbers, and have stuff all over the place.

2) All plugins adhered to some basic standards of how they expose presets and preset names to a host, so that when subhosts like Kore and Advance get developed it is much easier to import their presets (without having to resort to workarounds like NKS). Linplug do well here, managing to stay within basic VST conventions while still having decent browsers, but others like Soundtoys and Arturia do not.

+1000!

....however, in my experience Linplug doesn't do so well (still Spekral currently is one of the most exciting synths!!). But while I was demoing I tried to map its controls in Maschine and I noticed that every effect control has it's own automation ID in every effect slot, thus creating an unneccessay amount of controls. Has that changed?

Yes the effect mapping is complicated, it's the preset management that I was referring to in that it manages pretty successfully to marry the need for ratings and a decent enough browser while still adhering to basic VST standards (and thus being importable into Kore).

[loachm]

...yup, I wasn't looking at the presets at the time, but rather enjoyed making a few patches (it allows saving presets with a demo ), so I was in fact referring just to the automation IDs. It would be better if every fx slot would have fixed IDs no matter what effect is loaded...

[Fleer]

Agreed, Kore 2 is way better, but i still don't agree with NKS forcing 3rd party development, VIP is the next logical step from Kore 2 at this point (Not that i would touch it without effects support and way more dials, what is with the current 8 dials is enough nonsense)

As I said I would much prefer that:

1) Developers put more thought into which params get automatically exposed to hosts, named and organised them in meaningful ways. Some do well (eg Alchemy always shows its performamce and morph controls at the top level) but some just use stupid names or worse, numbers, and have stuff all over the place.

2) All plugins adhered to some basic standards of how they expose presets and preset names to a host, so that when subhosts like Kore and Advance get developed it is much easier to import their presets (without having to resort to workarounds like NKS). Linplug do well here, managing to stay within basic VST conventions while still having decent browsers, but others like Soundtoys and Arturia do not.

Just this.

As for VIP vs KK. Who wants to bet on which is supported longer? I bet on KK.

Same here. Love this NKS news

[stikygum]

Is Native Instruments too lazy and don't want to invest any man hours in to making templates for soft synths out there? Or is it just too time consuming/complex to figure all the soft synth's mappings?

This looks half ass on paper (regardless of their fake hype) and just their attempt at trying to save face from what the Akai Advance already is.

And to answer this threads question, NI doesn't have many 3rd party synths listed, so... no.