Bitwig

Liquinaut · Post by **Liquinaut** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:25 am

blouaap wrote:
WXLF wrote:
rhayes wrote:is this likely to be fixed soon ? el capitan has been out a little while now.
It's on Apple. The issue is not exclusive to Bitwig. So waiting on Apple
Then why is it only Bitwig that does this? Every other application I have start a second time. Even Java based ones like IntelliJ Idea, SOAP-UI,Toscanalyzer, etc. I think the "it is Apple's problem" is BS. Sure they changed the way applications start, but that is because of security changes, to make the OS safer, like SIP, etc. They could just add a script to start the BitwigStudio exec from within the .app contents and sign the app with that script. I tried it, but the signature to the app changes(corruption) and then it won't launch at all.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7#p6308777

blouaap · Post by **blouaap** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:05 am

Liquinaut wrote:
blouaap wrote:
WXLF wrote:
rhayes wrote:is this likely to be fixed soon ? el capitan has been out a little while now.
It's on Apple. The issue is not exclusive to Bitwig. So waiting on Apple
Then why is it only Bitwig that does this? Every other application I have start a second time. Even Java based ones like IntelliJ Idea, SOAP-UI,Toscanalyzer, etc. I think the "it is Apple's problem" is BS. Sure they changed the way applications start, but that is because of security changes, to make the OS safer, like SIP, etc. They could just add a script to start the BitwigStudio exec from within the .app contents and sign the app with that script. I tried it, but the signature to the app changes(corruption) and then it won't launch at all.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7#p6308777

Yes...I know they said that

. But it is BS, propaganda if you'd like. Because why is it the only application out of hundreds of thousands in the world that is doing it. Apple is not going to bend to third party app devs. So what he is saying is basically they sent a support request to Apple probably, and haven't heard anything back yet. Bitwig is firing off a secondary service in a chain after the main application that hosts the Plugins separately from the main app, this is what prevents plugins from crashing the main app. Maybe that is the issue, and then Apple won't do anything for that.

llze · Post by **llze** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:27 am

You make pretty vague suppositions here about Bitwig . The whole architecture of BWS is quite different to other Apps, because of the multiplatform orientation. This issue is worked around very easy, so why making such a drama out of it..

There is even a launcher batch on GitHub: https://github.com/jhorology/bitwig-el-capitan-launcher

If you do not trust in the words from BW, well then it's your problem, but claiming Bitwig propaganda without knowing facts or anything detailed about the problems source is neither fair nor appropriate and also a defamatory statement.

blouaap · Post by **blouaap** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:28 am

As a developer on Apple platforms, I actually know how it works. And I quote "We are working with Apple on this" is BS. Apple does NOT fold to third part developers in this way, especially if the Applications in question do NOT go through Apple's strict standards. (Apple will however help with ideas, or whatever to find a workaround, but they will not do anything to OSX for a case like this.) I was the first on this forum to point out the workaround terminal command, where people were doing the logout/login crap to get BWS to work, that's how I discovered in depth how BWS launches it's Application chain.
So if that is a bit over your head and too vague, I'm sorry, but it is fact. A small company like Bitwig doesn't get special treatment from Apple, no third party application developer does. Bitwig is solely responsible for this issue, not Apple. If this happened to more than ONE application, YES, by all means it's Apple's problem. This is one single case in a multitude of software out there. Point out ONE single case of ANY other Application that does this, just one. Apple has the our way or the highway approach, so they WILL NOT adhere to the will of third party development, especially for a single case like this. And if it is drama to you, then you clearly a little bit too sensitive, and I'm sorry about that.

llze · Post by **llze** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:20 am

maybe just make music then..

blouaap · Post by **blouaap** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:22 am

...and software.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:58 pm

Blouaap: I'm afraid you're wrong http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topi ... ng-closed/

Besides that, please don't use terms like BS regarding statements that have been made. That's pretty offensive and i asked you already multiple times not offend people on the forum.

Thanks,
Dom

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:32 pm

blouaap wrote: But it is BS, propaganda

pathetic apple fanboy...

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Again, no fighting and name calling, please. There's really no reason, we're just talking software here.

Cheers,
Dom

mzymandias · Post by **mzymandias** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:03 am

Using the terminal to open Bitwig is not ideal at all but I am sure I can cope until there is a fix. However, I am running it on my late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina 13 inch. And it is awfully laggy, the mouse disappears when I adjust a parameter on a device: i.e. changing octave on polysynth and mouse will disappear and program will freeze for a good 6 or 7 seconds.

Also scrolling through the browser panel and it will lag and jump ahead on my scroll, it will lag when playing instruments such as the polysynth using my mac keyboard. The sound will play ok, but the screen will freeze and jump forward trying to catch up, this makes it hard to monitor my levels when playing instruments.

Is this a problem with my Macbook as in it is not powerful enough? Literally every other program works ok, but I have just bought it so did not have a chance to try Bitwig on Yosemite and make comparisons. I run Bitwig on my desktop pc and it runs flawlessly so this is quite disappointing.

TristanMendoza · Post by **TristanMendoza** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:37 am

mzymandias wrote:Using the terminal to open Bitwig is not ideal at all but I am sure I can cope until there is a fix. However, I am running it on my late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina 13 inch. And it is awfully laggy, the mouse disappears when I adjust a parameter on a device: i.e. changing octave on polysynth and mouse will disappear and program will freeze for a good 6 or 7 seconds.

Also scrolling through the browser panel and it will lag and jump ahead on my scroll, it will lag when playing instruments such as the polysynth using my mac keyboard. The sound will play ok, but the screen will freeze and jump forward trying to catch up, this makes it hard to monitor my levels when playing instruments.

Is this a problem with my Macbook as in it is not powerful enough? Literally every other program works ok, but I have just bought it so did not have a chance to try Bitwig on Yosemite and make comparisons. I run Bitwig on my desktop pc and it runs flawlessly so this is quite disappointing.

I know what you mean. Its disappointing that OS X has this problem right now.

llze · Post by **llze** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:19 am

mzymandias wrote:Using the terminal to open Bitwig is not ideal at all but I am sure I can cope until there is a fix. However, I am running it on my late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina 13 inch. And it is awfully laggy, the mouse disappears when I adjust a parameter on a device: i.e. changing octave on polysynth and mouse will disappear and program will freeze for a good 6 or 7 seconds.

Also scrolling through the browser panel and it will lag and jump ahead on my scroll, it will lag when playing instruments such as the polysynth using my mac keyboard. The sound will play ok, but the screen will freeze and jump forward trying to catch up, this makes it hard to monitor my levels when playing instruments.

Is this a problem with my Macbook as in it is not powerful enough? Literally every other program works ok, but I have just bought it so did not have a chance to try Bitwig on Yosemite and make comparisons. I run Bitwig on my desktop pc and it runs flawlessly so this is quite disappointing.

you do not need to open the terminal, just put this little batch into your dock instead of the Bitwig one:

https://github.com/jhorology/bitwig-el-capitan-launcher

It will perform exactly the same line of code as if you would do it manualy.

Wich version are you using? there was a mouse fix in the latest 1.3.4, maybe that helps.
Regarding the lags i don't know, cannot reproduce them on my hack with El Capitan.

mzymandias · Post by **mzymandias** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:32 am

Hi thanks for the batch.

And using 1.3.4, not sure what my problem is then. Hopefully it will stop soon, I think it might just be a case of cpu though, as it has Bitwig using quite a high percentage of the cpu when scrolling through my devices/samples.

Whoa, as I was typing this I have figured something out. If I have Bitwig running in full screen it will lag, if I take it out of full screen and just pull the borders to make it quite wide/sitting on top of the dock it runs flawlessly. So not sure what the problem with fullscreen is.

blouaap · Post by **blouaap** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:15 am

dom@bitwig wrote:Blouaap: I'm afraid you're wrong http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topi ... ng-closed/

Besides that, please don't use terms like BS regarding statements that have been made. That's pretty offensive and i asked you already multiple times not offend people on the forum.

Thanks,
Dom

That is not close to the same issue. It is intermittent. Others are fine with Renoise, only a few on that thread suffered that particular issue. I tried Renoise, it opens more than once on my machine without issue. Bitwig invokes a chain: UI->Engine->Plugin Host. That's where the issue is with BWS. If another way can be found to invoke this chain, the issue should be resolved. I called it BS, because of how Apple works, not because of the App Launching issue. Apple does not work with third party devs in the way which was claimed, they only provide support or work arounds. Isn't lying offensive to consumers?

They did raise an interesting question there, is it the VSTs? One guy claimed he turned VSTs off and he circumvented the problem. But we don't have that option, or a way to see if it is indeed VSTs loading in the Plugin Host causing the issue.

@HamHat, whilst having your period still, please post links to your lies, thanks.

WXLF · Post by **WXLF** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:05 am