This explains a lot about Cakewalk/Sonar

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excessional wrote:
1. You learn music notation whenever you learn a classical instrument. 99% of people who can read music (and therefore might make use of the staff view) aren't making a living through music. They aren't Pros. You might sensibly talk about Sibelius being staff-view focussed and for Pros only but I'd say that Sonar has a more functional staff view than many other DAWs in the same sector - FL or Ableton for example. I think OP is confusing the concepts of 'classical' and 'professional'.
So now reading and writing music is indication of hobbyist usage! :lol: The pros are musicianly illiterate :hihi:

How Sonar has a more functional staff view than many other DAWs in the same sector ?!! It is really funny that you compare it to FL Studio and Ableton Live!! How about Cubase and Logic staff view? or they are not in the same sector?

Oh, this is tiring really. I really feel that I've jumped from the train before crashing! With periods of discounts that much much longer than without discounts, I suspect that Cakewalk will be able to survive much longer. It doesn't attract hobbyists and it doesn't attract professionals, so who is the happy audience that using Sonar? :neutral:

For me, I don't care really! I have abandoned all Cakewalk's products, so I have nothing to worry about. I don't want to waste my time again with Sonar, and even if they give it to me (Platinum) for free, I won't touch it (Really!).

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lfm wrote:
RockinMillie wrote: However, there was demo available for X2 and as always with any software, it's a case of buy before you have thoroughly trialled it in anger at your own peril.
Been there too - got Samp ProX2 on a hunch last summer and it was the most expensive trial I ever ran. Ran a trial first, but was unable to get it registered such that it increased trial over 7 days. Before support replied it was to expire, so I took a chance.

VST3 crashed it, so I could only run projects with VST2 plugins.
Then six month after last patch, not long ago - a patch came out that fixed that.

But as Waves 9.6 came out - ProX2 crashes on scan of VST3 even.

Magix and maintenance...Cakewalk are way ahead of those guys...

and that's saying something. Same happened to me with the am plugins demo, but I never actually got a reply so didn't buy. Weird company.

With Cakewalk, i kind of get the OP on this. I was a pretty big supporter of them for a few years (account still jam packed with stuff). Over the years I rang them at my cost from oz (before skype days), sent multiple emails, had bugs CONFIRMED by the top brass at the time, and to this day those bugs still were never fixed.
They keep buying up companies but not maintaining updated code for them.
They release and drop features, leave bugs from plugins 10 years old, and never fixed a single bug i personally had in X2 (that MANY others confirmed, every one of them). Instead they expected me to pay for the next version. I REALLY wanted sonar X2 to be the DAW for my windows laptop that I use now and then. The best song I ever wrote to this day was done in Sonar as a one off miracle perhaps, i dunno, but that's what happened, so i have a big soft spot for it. Back at sonar 2 i think it was.
I will still support them and turn dpro and rapture into rapture pro some day, and i did update zeta etc but my sonar purchases stopped at X2. That one destroyed my soul and al creativity i had inside me as just when i thought it couldn't get any worse, BAM, something else would happen.

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Thanks jinotsuh

Wow, I'm so glad to have moved on now. Others I know who are very knowledgeable and well respect had moved on long before I did. We stay in contact, share useful information, they're all doing fine. :wink:

I've been browsing these corridors at KVR for a long time, eventually signed up in 2012. KVR provides great information and I like their newsletter. :)
People have their own factual opinions, and Internet laws should be respected. This message is in general and therefore, not intended to offend anyone but as a reminder to at least respect others and their rights. Peace 8)

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excessional wrote: 1. You learn music notation whenever you learn a classical instrument. 99% of people who can read music (and therefore might make use of the staff view) aren't making a living through music. They aren't Pros. You might sensibly talk about Sibelius being staff-view focussed and for Pros only but I'd say that Sonar has a more functional staff view than many other DAWs in the same sector - FL or Ableton for example. I think OP is confusing the concepts of 'classical' and 'professional'.
Perhaps your immediate music world works like that but it's not true in general.

In the real world people learn to read music if they want to:

Be the best at their instrument - 1st call studio players can read their a** off
Arrange music such as strings or horns for pop or rock songs.
Be a jazz musician.
Compose beyond the genres of pop songs or EDM.
Understand Harmony.
Be a top notch drummer.
Be a classical musician.
I could go on...

Fl and Ableton AFAIK don't have staff views. Cakewalk has the least functional staff view of any of the popular pro DAWs such as Cubase, Protools etc... that have staff views. Finally, if you think that Sibelius has anything to do with this you don't understand the issues. If Sonar is working fine for you then it seems to me that you don' have a dog in this fight. So why exactly are you here arguing?

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excessional wrote: 4.Well I can see from OP's conduct, negativity towards the product and massive post-count in this thread how he managed to get banned. I've posted occasionally with a query on the official CW forums and found them to be nothing but helpful.

Well I'm the OP and have never been banned or contacted by Cakewalk. So perhaps you are confused?

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vintagevibe wrote:
excessional wrote: 1. You learn music notation whenever you learn a classical instrument. 99% of people who can read music (and therefore might make use of the staff view) aren't making a living through music. They aren't Pros. You might sensibly talk about Sibelius being staff-view focussed and for Pros only but I'd say that Sonar has a more functional staff view than many other DAWs in the same sector - FL or Ableton for example. I think OP is confusing the concepts of 'classical' and 'professional'.
Perhaps your immediate music world works like that but it's not true in general.

In the real world people learn to read music if they want to:

Be the best at their instrument - 1st call studio players can read their a** off
Arrange music such as strings or horns for pop or rock songs.
Be a jazz musician.
Compose beyond the genres of pop songs or EDM.
Understand Harmony.
Be a top notch drummer.
Be a classical musician.
I could go on...

Fl and Ableton AFAIK don't have staff views. Cakewalk has the least functional staff view of any of the popular pro DAWs such as Cubase, Protools etc... that have staff views. Finally, if you think that Sibelius has anything to do with this you don't understand the issues. If Sonar is working fine for you then it seems to me that you don' have a dog in this fight. So why exactly are you here arguing?
Edited to add to list...

Playing a high visibility gig without rehearsals or knowing the musicians you are playing with.
Do voice leading for your vocal harmonies.
Writing a chart that other musicians can understand.

...Just from the top of my head.

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Otherworldly wrote:I have used Sonar for many years, more than enough to share an honest and fair opinion. I'm still a member of Cakewalk forums but I have moved on recently to another host (DAW) and I couldn't be happier.
Thanks for the very substantive post. Out of curiousity -- as I'm still on the fence re whether to persevere, or to cut my losses and move on -- which DAW have you moved to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDj_Van ... uNbgY-4qFK

I'm not the Messiah. I'm not the Messiah!

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Hey, me again...

So what exactly is this thread about, really? What "has been explained" about Cakewalk/SONAR? I will attempt to sum it up and then see what you guys say...

-So some people feel let down by SONAR and will keep complaining about it.

-Others like stuff about SONAR, and think Cakewalk is steadily improving, and will keep with it.

-Is SONAR for hobbyists? I think it is as professional as the person using it.

Okay, everyone go home now... :hihi: :clap:

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I'd agree if you were a classically trained professional musician with a preference for using staff views to compose/arrange you wouldn't use Sonar. But of course that's true of lots of DAWs - you wouldn't use Ableton or FL12 either would you?

I didn't say that Professional Musicians don't use staff view/musical notation. Of course many/most of them do. You have missed the point.

What I said was that 99% of people who can read music and might be using a DAW won't be professional musicians. Which is true.

It is also true that of DAW users the majority of the people who want to compose/arrange via a staff view will tend to be classically trained.

But the vast majority of the users of DAWs don't use staff view at all. How many instructional vids do you ever see where staff view gets shown? I don't think I've seen a single one in 3 years - you won't see one unless you literally hunt out the manufacturer's staff view vid.

So this is the dilemma for DAW makers. Do you try to be jack of all trades, master of none or do you focus on areas you are good at. I think, in the past, CW have been guilty of trying to cover too many bases - it is the jack of all trades option. But Sonar has improved vastly since X2, and at the moment it's a quick, stable and good value DAW. By upgrading at sale times, the top of the line version - Sonar Plat - has cost me less than $200. If you have a PC and want a DAW that can do most things and are looking for a value for money studio in a box, it's a perfectly decent choice.

A lot of this is about comfort zones and workflow as well. I've tried Ableton and PreSonus and Bitwig etc. but just find the Sonar workflow much quicker (presumably as I've been using the Skylight interface for 3 years now). Ableton in particular just made my head and eyes hurt. I dare say if I'd spent 3 years on any DAW I'd be more comfortable with it than when I tried a new one.

But for the vast majority of us - which means non-professionals who just like to make our own music - any DAW will do.
Sonar Platinum, Ignite and Ableton Live 9 DAWS
AIR Hybrid 3, Synthmaster, Z3ta+2, Addictive Drums 2, True Piano Amber, Rapture, Dim Pro, BFD Eco, AAS Strum, Addictive Keys, Synth 1 VSTs
Nektar LX61, Korg MicroKey and Akai Pro LPD8 Pad

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Hi Lingyai,

I suggest researching various leading hosts (DAWs), read up on specifications, features, watch videos and download the manual, visit forums and ask questions and then download the demos, only you can decide what's best for you. :)
People have their own factual opinions, and Internet laws should be respected. This message is in general and therefore, not intended to offend anyone but as a reminder to at least respect others and their rights. Peace 8)

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As I see it, the main problem with Sonar is that it is a very deep program, and you REALLY need to RTFM, as somebody above stated. I must say that my experience with other DAWS is limited to Ableton Live, that is my other choice, and Reaper, that I finally abandoned circa version 4.something. I do not find Sonar to be buggier, or less stable, than the other two. Live used to crash more often than Sonar in all my systems, and sending live midi to Reaper from several hardware synth arpeggiators and sequencers at the same time made it go belly up pretty consistently while Sonar didn't even blink. Of course I have been using Sonar since before it was even called that, and by version 8.5 I knew it inside out. Then the big change of X1, plus the horrible Roland era alienated many users, but since version X3 and the Gibson aquisition things are back on track again and getting better every month. By version X2 I was using Live more, but with X3 Sonar is again my first choice. I am delaying the upgrade to Platinum because I am moving shortly to a new place, and I am buying a new desktop, but I am definitely installing it in the new machine, along with Live. If Cakewalk keeps improving at the same rate, I can see Sonar being my main DAW again.

About the forum, I'll just say that reading complaints about it in KVR sounds to me like people in Syria complaining about crime rates in Detroit, not to mention that some Cakewalk haters seem to have graduated to Cakewalk stalkers, but whatever... :roll:

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Always guaranteed to bring out the Sonar Fanbois..... :hihi:
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing

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trimph1 wrote:Always guaranteed to bring out the Sonar Fanbois..... :hihi:
Who are just as entitled as you are to their opinions :wink:
Last edited by RockinMillie on Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why won't you delete this account as I have requested Ben ?

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Otherworldly wrote:Hi Lingyai,

I suggest researching various leading hosts (DAWs), read up on specifications, features, watch videos and download the manual, visit forums and ask questions and then download the demos, only you can decide what's best for you. :)
Yes, I know that only I can decide whats' best for me, and that research is neccessary ... I do it constantly. Part of that research is hearing straight from users, hence my question to you! ;-) Don't worry, no one source is going to sway me.

Rather, I'm curious in this case as you are a long-time CW user, and so was I (stopped at sonar 2.2, rejoined with X3e and now Hopinkton). Trying to like it, but struggling.

Been thinking a lot about Studio One v3 although recently the problems thread on the Presonus forum is giving me pause, or at least tempering my hopes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDj_Van ... uNbgY-4qFK

I'm not the Messiah. I'm not the Messiah!

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Have you tried MuLab?

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