fmr wrote:Weak filter? In what terms? I noticed several times (based on your comments) that for you a synth is essentially about snappy envelopes and screaming filters. In those two parameters, I agree the Jupiter may win.ghettosynth wrote: The original Matrix 12 does not sound better than the original Jupiter 8. The M12 is much more programmable, and, is capable of more nuanced sounds in many respects. However, it has very slow software envelopes and despite having many modes, a relatively weak filter by comparison.
But in terms of versatility (and for me a synth has to be taken for the whole, and the filter is just ONE module, which is there just to take frequencies off), the Matrix-12 has much more to offer - starting with 15 filter modes, where the Jupiter only has two. And a powerful matrix modulation, and tons of VCAs, and modulations sources. The envelopes may not be the fastest, but there are five, and ramps too. Besides, I am not interested in millisecond records - they were fast enough to get really snappy sounds, at least to my ears.
So, as much as I respect the Jupiter-8 (which was a great synth, indeed) the Matrix-12 sounded better IMO (fatter, capable of the most majestic pads I have ever heard, and capable of really evolving sounds). There may not be a sound that defines the Matrix-12 (because it is capable of so many), but if there was one, it would certainly be one of those majestic pads. Yes, I was referring to the originals, when I said the Matrix-12 sounded better than the Jupiter-8, and I say that having experiencing both.
Anyway, both Arturia emulations are also great, IMO. but of course I was delighted to finally have an emulation of the Matrix-12.
Yeah, as beely points out, the M12 was never regarded as fat. People regularly complained about the envelopes in the M12, they are very slow. Moreover, they are annoyingly linked to the limits of the cpu and vary in their timing when you use too many of them.
The modes of the M12 are nice, sure, but the low pass modes just do not have the character of the Roland IR3109. Please do not diminish my opinion by trying to state what synths are to me, you don't know me. The M12 is still a CEM based synthesizer with slow software envelopes. It is capable of many nuanced sounds, as I said, but it is by no serious definition, "fat."
The essence of my point is quite clear. Today, compared to many plugins, the M12 is just average in terms of programability. Multimode filters are kind of ho-hum, and really, often you want to use more than one in series, a common option in today's softsynths. This does not diminish the M12, which is amazing, but it's amazing because all of that was done in hardware, well, except for the envelopes and LFOs. If you like the M12 for nostalgia reasons and want a copy of it, well, then the Arturia is your choice. But, if you just want a powerful pogrammable poly with lots of modulation and multimode filters, there are many choices and most of then have a better U/I than Arturia's M12.
As I said, for most things that the M12V can do, you're probably better off with Massive. It has more interesting filter modes, the filters can be serial or parallel, it has a complex modulation system, its envelope display is much better and the envelopes are really interesting with the morph section, its oscillator section is much more versatile. I could go on.