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ghettosynth
KVRAF
 
11023 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:23 pm Re: Steinberg Retrologue

chk071 wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
chk071 wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:I think that it's very different from Sylenth, in fact, I don't even know why people like Sylenth. It's just about technology. If you aren't eating up the CPU today, you probably aren't going to please me. If you can please me and not eat up the CPU, then I want to know what you've done with technology that other people aren't able to do.

Check Spire. 1/3 of the CPU it was consuming before, and a lot of people are convinced of the sound. Maybe not your typical ZDF whatever analog modelled filter, but really, Dune 2 also uses ZDF and doesn't eat your CPU alive. I think it's a false assumption that something which sounds good has to kill your CPU. Afaik, Diva also uses a lot less CPU than on its initial release, so...


Spire? You mean the one that Hardwell endorses? Seriously?

Tbh, i don't think you really care who endorses what. :P



Oh wow, am I that transparent? Well, I certainly don't buy into endorsements as a measure of sufficiency, but endorsements from people with bad taste is a red flag.

ghettosynth wrote:On Edit: Yes, indeed, it doesn't eat my CPU, that is correct, it's CPU light for sure.

Spire? Yeah, it is really. Since the latest update.

[/quote]

The filter just isn't there, that's all.
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4723 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:15 pm Re: Steinberg Retrologue

I was quite happy with Retrologue the First ;) I thought it sounds great to me with low cpu usage. Diva also sounds great.

I'm really not into the sound quality only! If I have the money, I would buy KingKorg because I played it little and it blew my mind and emotions, but I can't afford it or I have another priorities. I would upgrade to Retrologue 2 immediately if it has a flexible protection, but it is not.

Diva came as a choice because of two reasons (maybe three). First it has a friendly protection, second the resizable GUI and of course the fantastic modules. It comes more expansive than Retrologue update a little bit, but I will win the resizable GUI, more modules and most important I just install it in two machines and enter the serial received from u-he support. So, when i put Retrologue in one side of the scales and Diva in the other, Diva weights more for me and it is the winner.

Anyway, today I received the serial of Waves Element from AudioDeluxe! So, I will be busy for some time :P
My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, Reaper 5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey 37 & 2 x nanoKontrol2 and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
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Ingonator
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11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:01 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

I just tried to create some Synth Brass and Bass patches in Retrologue 2 and found that there almost is no low end in the synth. You have to push the built-in EQ really hard to get somehow close to a good low end.
The only way to get this to a really good amount is to use eg. a Bass enhancer like Waves OneKnob Phatter (which i alraedy used on other synths with a not so great low end) or an external EQ.
With bigger amounts of Resonance the low end is even worse, same i found recently when comparing my Ensoniq ESQ-1 to SQ8L at high Resonance (while overall SQ8L is a great emulation).

So for me Retrologue 2 is great for pad sounds but everything that needs a good low end like e.g. Basses, Synth Brass and fat Lead sounds other synths seem to be a better choice.

Besides some nice plugins including Diva I have 3 hardware synths with analog filters here (Waldorf Pulse 2, Ensoniq ESQ-1 and Korg DW-8000) so i know how a good low end could sound (even the hybrid synths like ESQ-1 and especially DW-8000 are much better than many plugins in that respect).

With adding an external effect like Waves OneKnob Phatter the low end gets to an acceptable amount. I am also using this with other synths.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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fluffy_little_something
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11681 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:36 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

On their board one of their employees has backpedaled on the license, now all you need is the software eLicenser :)


Ingo,
I suppose that is what I meant with my post yesterday, it lacks power somehow, even compared to Sylenth, and probably even more so when compared to Xils and U-he stuff.

But also make sure your osc's actually output the signal you have selected. Sometimes they output sine instead of the waveform actually selected. When that happens, I switch back and forth a couple of times till the desired waveform is output. Not sure what the problem is, maybe a GUI issue.

Another thing to consider is the keyboard tracking, which seems to be quite different from Sylenth. Maybe it has to do with the pivot note one can set on Retrologue.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:52 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

fluffy_little_something wrote:Ingo,
I suppose that is what I meant with my post yesterday, it lacks power somehow, even compared to Sylenth, and probably even more so when compared to Xils and U-he stuff.
But make sure your osc's actually output the signal you have selected. Sometimes they output sine instead of the waveform actually selected. When that happens, I switch back and forth a couple of times till the desired waveform is output. Not sure what the problem is, maybe a GUI issue.

Another thing to consider is the keyboard tracking, which seems to be quite different from Sylenth. Maybe it has to do with the pivot note one can set on 'Retrologue.


The waveforms are correct but it's still the same. Anyway like with some other synths i could improve the low end a lot by adding Waves OneKnob Phatter which i really helpful in such cases.
BTW i had the issue you described once when switching Osc 3 to "Multi" when i wanted to change the waveforms to teh next opne and tehn back it was enough to just clikc on the knob (without any changes..) to get it work again. Very strtange indeed.


fluffy_little_something wrote:On their board one of their employees has backpedaled on the license, now all you need is the software eLicenser :)


Using soft eLicenser was also an option with the previous version of Retrologue while for Cubase you MUST use a dongle (which should be included in the boxed version of Cubase). The question is if you are able to receive more than one activation code to use it on more than one computer.
The big advantage of using teh USB dongle is that you could use it on as many computers as you like and also that you do not loose your license by re-installing the OS or when having a HD crash.
I do use such eLiccenser USB dongle since around 2006 (with multiple products) and never had such issues there.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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fluffy_little_something
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11681 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:58 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

Well, I suppose the software eLicenser is important for all those people who don't have anything else from Steinberg or similar companies who use or used to use the dongle. People like me 8)
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fluffy_little_something
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11681 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:07 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

I am no expert on those things, but I sent the same saw init patch through the signal analyzer and it shows different signals, top is Sylenth, bottom is Retrologue:

https://app.box.com/s/3i1qgk8d6jamzyc6ru7yibmv170wos5p

The lower you go on the keyboard, the greater the difference. While the peaks are more or less equally loud, in between them there is a lot less signal, which in my layman's way might be what I perceived as less intense.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ingonator
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11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:08 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

fluffy_little_something wrote:Well, I suppose the software eLicenser is important for all those people who don't have anything else from Steinberg or similar companies who use or used to use the dongle. People like me 8)


That's correct but you should understand that using the dongle has certain advantages that i already tried to explain.
Waldorf has the same options (dongle and soft eLicenser) and Xils Lab offers both (elIcenser + iLok) and the soft versions.
Using a soft eLicenser could become a big PITA as long as you need to use the plugin at a second computer, reinstall your OS if you have a HD crash.

BTW for Steinberg products you could register all licenses found at your eLicenser dongle to your Steioberg account (actually you also register the serial of that eLicenser there) and recover licenses from that account (e.g. if the dongle breaks etc.).

FWIW It is also possible to use UVI Falcon with a soft iLok (or "PACE" protection) but i preferred to add the license to my iLok 2 key that i alraedy used anyway.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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Ingonator
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11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:25 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

fluffy_little_something wrote:I am no expert on those things, but I sent the same saw init patch through the signal analyzer and it shows different signals, top is Sylenth, bottom is Retrologue:

https://app.box.com/s/3i1qgk8d6jamzyc6ru7yibmv170wos5p


In the spectrum i could see that at maximum Cutoff and no matter which filter is used the signal seems to be cut off at around 19 KHz (actually it alraedy starts earlier) so the oscillators in Retrologue 2 seem to have a limited frequency range. I have not noticed this behavior in e.g. Diva or with real analog synths.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
11681 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:28 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

I have amended my previous post meanwhile, just in case you did not see :) I can't say much about the top, but the lower frequencies are where the differences are more evident. Play a low bass note and send it through your analyzer, I think it looks strange.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:38 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

I just checked some Bass factory presets in retrologue 2 and found that those that seem to have a better low end seem to use big amounts (50% or more) of filter Drive/Distortion.

In another patch i found that also teh Center key for the filter key folow seems to have an influence. For Bass sounds a lower Center key seems to be better. I wil try to check this.
Setting the Center key for the key fol,ow seems to be an unusual feature.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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4damind
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4636 posts since 17 Aug, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby 4damind; Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:49 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

Aah, I see my old thread is still alive :D

I have not found some time to test Retrologue 2. It seems they improved also the sound? I remember only from a video that Steinberg added a 3rd oscillator.
chk071
KVRAF
 
16386 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:52 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

4damind wrote:Aah, I see my old thread is still alive :D

I have not found some time to test Retrologue 2. It seems they improved also the sound? I remember only from a video that Steinberg added a 3rd oscillator.

I made a A/B test on my laptop and desktop machine, and didn't really notice a difference. Was another sound card though, and headphones and speakers, and i also had to plug in and plug out the dongle, so there was a bit of time between the tests... i think Steinberg would have also market it with "improves sound", if they had changed something. Sounds pretty similar to me.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11957 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:53 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

fluffy_little_something wrote:Another thing to consider is the keyboard tracking, which seems to be quite different from Sylenth. Maybe it has to do with the pivot note one can set on Retrologue.


After some more tests the Filter key tracking seems to be indeed important for a better low end.
But it's not just about the key track amount (where negative amounts are also possible in Retrologue 2...), it's also about the key track Center key (the display below the keytrack knob). For a Bass sound this shou be lower than the default C3, e.g. at C2, C1 or even lower. This could be also used in combination with a negative keytrack amount which could lead to nice results. For adjusting the Center key you could also hold a note and adjust the value until the resulting tone is OK for you.
I had noticed this at a factory preset where i was not sure why this had a better low end than what i got based on tweaking the Init patch.

Two other ways to further improve the low end (besdies adding certain external FXs...) is adding te built-in EQ or add filter Drive/Distortion.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
surreal
KVRian
 
871 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Postby surreal; Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:03 am Re: Steinberg Retrologue

Can one run instances of retrologue 1 and retrologue 2 simultaneously?
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