90% of this entire thread is just plain silly. Use whatever tools and techniques you like, analog or digital, 44.1 or 96 kHz, SM-58 or U87, Gibson or Fender, synth or sampler. Whatever sounds good to your ears.
What I do take issue with, though, is one of Vojtech's early assertions: that nobody learns anything new past age 30.
This is easy to refute. I know that many here are well past that age; just think about everything you now know that you didn't know when you were 30.
And not just technology developed since then, but basic facts of physics. For example, at age 30 I knew almost nothing about acoustics or its importance in mixing and mastering. Today I could write a book on the subject. So where did my current knowledge come from, had I not been able to learn anything new over the intervening decades?
Analogue discussion
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- KVRist
- 353 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Melbourne Australia
^^ Can't argue with that Mr Baggins!! 
They always work best on audio sources with minimal harmonic content, Triangle and sine waves are best obviously, and they can sound pretty terrible when you put something more complex into them.
The 'folding' happens as you increase the input signal, basically the circuit adds harmonics to the signal. Turning the fold knob when looking at a scope you can see it 'fold' the waveform over and over.
(0.50 in the video below)
In a way its the opposite of a filter, as instead of removing harmonics from a complex signal, it adds them to a simple one.
Don Buchla was a massive fan of this method of sound creation and from what I understand he used these much more often than filters in his analog modular, but was using them to create similar effects.
For me though, As I mentioned before it really starts to get interesting when you start to modulate the 'folding' with another signal. Audio rate modulation pf the folding can make some very interesting metallic through to just plain evil sounds, and is one of my favorite ways to explore new and interesting sounds. (this is also the thing I've never found a software folder capable of doing!)
That was probably not the best explanation!
Here is the best video I could find of someone doing basic wave folding (analog, but still), and then taking it pretty far out with both audio rate modulation of the folding and then also audio rate offset modulation.
!!
https://vimeo.com/33813515
Well there are many analog circuits / variations on the wave folder.MeldaProduction wrote:Terrafractyl: Modulation is a problem in digital indeed. Not that it wouldn't be possible, it's actually very simple, but unless hugely oversampled, it results in a lot of aliasing... But it's often survivable with just some oversampling. What is exactly the "wave folder"? I tried to search something about it, but found nothing useful, only analog circuits, but I want to know what it exactly does, especially since apparently it is just a waveshaper with cool name.
.
They always work best on audio sources with minimal harmonic content, Triangle and sine waves are best obviously, and they can sound pretty terrible when you put something more complex into them.
The 'folding' happens as you increase the input signal, basically the circuit adds harmonics to the signal. Turning the fold knob when looking at a scope you can see it 'fold' the waveform over and over.
(0.50 in the video below)
In a way its the opposite of a filter, as instead of removing harmonics from a complex signal, it adds them to a simple one.
Don Buchla was a massive fan of this method of sound creation and from what I understand he used these much more often than filters in his analog modular, but was using them to create similar effects.
For me though, As I mentioned before it really starts to get interesting when you start to modulate the 'folding' with another signal. Audio rate modulation pf the folding can make some very interesting metallic through to just plain evil sounds, and is one of my favorite ways to explore new and interesting sounds. (this is also the thing I've never found a software folder capable of doing!)
That was probably not the best explanation!
Here is the best video I could find of someone doing basic wave folding (analog, but still), and then taking it pretty far out with both audio rate modulation of the folding and then also audio rate offset modulation.
!!
https://vimeo.com/33813515
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Sure but that is a show stopper of any audio thread if "what shall I use" was the question. It's not the question in this thread. The op gave his opinion on the popularity of analog sound and what he wanted instead.Then Melda P gave his historical founded theory. Then the tech-guys, sampleraters and modulaters entered and I tried to put a little psychological cream on top. I think the thread is interesting enough as such.bbaggins wrote:90% of this entire thread is just plain silly. Use whatever tools and techniques you like, analog or digital, 44.1 or 96 kHz, SM-58 or U87, Gibson or Fender, synth or sampler. Whatever sounds good to your ears.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Wavefolding: Well, looks simple . But I must say it's not really my cup of tea , sounds too extreme, but well, maybe I'll try, should take a few hours at most, no idea about the aliasing though of course.
What I'm not sure is what you mean by the "audio rate modulation".
. But I must say it's not really my cup of tea , sounds too extreme, but well, maybe I'll try, should take a few hours at most, no idea about the aliasing though of course.What I'm not sure is what you mean by the "audio rate modulation".
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
An LFO that moves so fast it becomes audible.
Melda Production & United Plugins
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Aaaaah! Thanks 
. In these things I could see a big potential for aliasing going mad, but we'll see .
. In these things I could see a big potential for aliasing going mad, but we'll see .-
- KVRist
- 353 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Melbourne Australia
Well it doesn't have to be that extreme, At the start of the video when they are just adding folds to a simple sine wave it sounds just like a filter sweep. So yeah it can be subtle!MeldaProduction wrote:Wavefolding: Well, looks simple
What I'm not sure is what you mean by the "audio rate modulation".
As for the Aliasing/ Audio rate modulation, well that what I thought this whole discussion was about!!
I brought this up because its something that analog still can do without breaking a sweat, but digital devices just are not built to handle the super fast modulation, that I can apply to any parameter with my modular. There is a whole world of sounds there!
The reason I brought up this Particular circuit is I feel it is kind of an opposite to the filter. Obviously we have come far with Digital filters to the point where we can FM them and it sounds great. That took quite a while though.... and afaik NO-one has made a wave folder that can have the folding parameter frequency modulated by another osc and sound anything like the real deal... I thought you might like the challenge!
I actually like that the Melda modulators go quite fast, one of the first things that impressed me about your plugs, but to be totally honest I'm still dreaming of the day (probably many years from now) when there is no such thing as an LFO on 'any' music software, just full range OSC's that can go super slow as well as above the human hearing limit... just like analog
(could be a total fantasy though)
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Hehe got it . True about the extreme filtering. That's something that digital doesn't excel in, at least if you don't have a supercomputer . But generally even 8x oversampling seems fine here. Of course that might be a little too much in most synths anyway...
As for the LFOs - actually it's more like convenience thing, controlling an LFO where half of its range is ridiculously high could be sort of a problem. But yes, it would sound different than analog, not necessarily worse, but definitely different. Most analog circuits don't do these speeds either, so some sort of "rounding" occurs.
. True about the extreme filtering. That's something that digital doesn't excel in, at least if you don't have a supercomputer . But generally even 8x oversampling seems fine here. Of course that might be a little too much in most synths anyway...As for the LFOs - actually it's more like convenience thing, controlling an LFO where half of its range is ridiculously high could be sort of a problem
. But yes, it would sound different than analog, not necessarily worse, but definitely different. Most analog circuits don't do these speeds either, so some sort of "rounding" occurs.
