Trapped in the digital world

[theEmbark]

I was born in '91 do the majority of my life I've grown up with digital circuit boards, high tech computers, and punk rock . 

I had a brain injury that's made it much harder to pick up and play a guitar like I used to so I've been playing keys and synths more and more. In the last 3-5 years I discovered the beauty of boutique amps and all the beauty's of the analog world of guitar. I've played guitar long enough to play thru different setups and guitars etc and tailored my sound to a specific set of hardware. 

So fast forward to today. I've got a bunch of great software synths that I play with via a Roland rd300nx. These are great but they are kind of leaving me desiring for something more. I want racks of synths, cases full of outboard gear, a mixing console etc. Now I realize I can't just go on a giant shopping (budget doesn't allow) and drop like 50 grand but I want to start an analog gear collection. I don't want to replace my digital stuff but rather let them coexist and play with whatever I have the urge to play. My question is where do I start? Is there a bread and butter synth out there that doesn't break the bank? Are there certain things I should be learning about analog gear in general? I haven't been collecting for a life time but I would like to start and I'm just curious how some of you guys out there started your collections. What did you start with? If you could rewind what would you do different? Etc. 

Thanks,
Kevin

[Ridan]

Sorry to hear about your injury.
I was born in '85 (main instrument is guitar as well) so I kind of know where you are coming from.

My first synth was an Alesis Ion, and gotta say that i spent hours on that thing daily. You couldn't have pried me off even if your life depended on it. It looks more complicated than what it actually is. There are bread and butter sounds on there just as well as more complex sounds. Bought it second hand for about $200.

[theEmbark]

Sorry to hear about your injury.
I was born in '85 (main instrument is guitar as well) so I kind of know where you are coming from.

My first synth was an Alesis Ion, and gotta say that i spent hours on that thing daily. You couldn't have pried me off even if your life depended on it. It looks more complicated than what it actually is. There are bread and butter sounds on there just as well as more complex sounds. Bought it second hand for about $200.

Thanks for the reply!

The tech boom has been a great thing for so many reasons but sometimes I just really want to play an actual instrument. Simplify my workflow so the creativity can flow. I will look into the Ion - what would you summarize your music genre as?

Again Thanks,
Kevin

[Ridan]

Tbh. I prefer software to hardware for sound design, but for just "jamming out" hardware is more exciting. I still collect drum machines, but not hw synths anymore. When I played my Ion the main genre was liquid drum and bass. Now it's mostly dark ambient which the Ion doesn't exactly excel at. Though it can pull of Chill quite easily. There's just a lot of flavor inside an Ion that I think would make it a good first synth. It taught me a lot.

What about you?

Also, what is your budget if you don't mind me asking?

[theEmbark]

That's good info to know. I have been contemplating just saving for a digital workstation like the jupiter 80 or the moxf8.

My genre depends on the project but my personal style is more rock & roll. Bands like blink 183, sum 41, linkin park, dream theater, SOAD, and the list goes on... are what inspire most of my work.

My budget is a bit flexible you might say. I'm liquidating about 3.5k in old guitar gear. Between that and just my daily savings I should have plenty to get most any work station. That being said I am also a practicalist so if I can spend $1000 and be as happy as if I spend $5000 then I'll save the money.

[Ridan]

Yeah, those are definitely decent workstations. I've messed around on a moxf8 once or twice. Loved the sounds for the most part once i got past the e-piano's.

Have heard positive reviews on the Jupiter 80, and judging by demo videos the Jupiter 80 just sounds better to my ears in comparison to the moxf8. I want to say the sounds have more texture, but that's probably not the word i'm looking for.

Am familiar with the bands you listed however am having a hard time visualizing what synths would work well with those genres. lol Hopefully someone else can chime in. Though, this could help in the meantime - http://equipboard.com/pros/linkin-park

Keep us updated. I'd like to know how you get on, and what you end up buying.

[theEmbark]

Thanks for your feedback Ridan,

On one hand having a nice workstation to start with would be really nice. I don't gig a lot these days but hoping to get out again and being able to load up my sounds into one station would be great.

However on the other hand it's really nice to be just be able to rock out and not have to worry too much about the programming etc. of a digital synth. You have actual knobs and sliders on analog synths tied to specific functions.

As far as the jupiter vs the motif xf8 it's really a hard decision for me. I'm going to have to play around with both a lot more. The jupiter is about a grand less but it has synth keys. That's both a good and bad thing for me. I don't mind them however I come from a more traditional weighted key background and if I'm going to spend that much money I really need to make sure I am happy with the key choice.

If I had all the money and space in the world I'd just buy anything and everything as we all would haha. For now I think I'm going to just save up my money. Once I get a little more experience with creating sounds digitally I'll probably invest in some hardware synths for the studio and a workstation to gig with. For now I'm just going to pocket it all however my thought is to start with a jupiter or moxf8 .

Thanks,
Kevin

[theEmbark]

I do have a couple other practical questions about synthesis and workstations. I have a roland rd300nx which is coined as a 'stage piano'. It sounds great for what it does but is it possible to load sounds into this unit? For instance presets I've created in Massive. I can't really find anything saying 'yes' but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask. I figure the board has an operating system of some kind that is clearly reading a certain file type and outputting it so I am sure there is a way to do this but I'm really only interested in whether it is made to do this without hacking into things as I do use it as my primary piano where I am living.

Secondly, I know that this type of ability is available in the workstations but is there anything with a smaller price tag that does this? Or is it really worth saving to buy a workstation? They are expensive but that being said I've spent more on guitar amps and it does kind of put you in a different league with different abilities available to you. Is it the same kind of deal?

Thanks,
Kevin

edit: sites mention flash memory support. I know it has a usb port because I use it to connect to my ipad. Just trying to figure out how everything truely works and what I can potentially get out of it.

[mikefellh]

However on the other hand it's really nice to be just be able to rock out and not have to worry too much about the programming etc. of a digital synth. You have actual knobs and sliders on analog synths tied to specific functions.

You don't need analog to have knobs and sliders, there are DCO synths and the benefits of those is you can save patches, unlike a true analog where each time you want to load a sound you created previously you have to dial it back in again. For instance, here's how Pea Hicks and Vince Clark recorded settings for the Prophet Pro One for the band Yaz/Yazoo:

[theEmbark]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the post. I think I am more interested in something that has some kind of ability to retain presets like you mentioned.

I'm kind of thinking that I might be best off to get something that will allow me to control plugins like massive at this point. I have a quite extensive library of tracks and presets for massive so i want to be able to play these live. What's the best way to go about this?

Thanks,
Kevin

[drglas]

However on the other hand it's really nice to be just be able to rock out and not have to worry too much about the programming etc. of a digital synth. You have actual knobs and sliders on analog synths tied to specific functions.

You don't need analog to have knobs and sliders, there are DCO synths and the benefits of those is you can save patches, unlike a true analog where each time you want to load a sound you created previously you have to dial it back in again. For instance, here's how Pea Hicks and Vince Clark recorded settings for the Prophet Pro One for the band Yaz/Yazoo:

I think you got things mixed up. A DCO has nothing to do with the ability to save patches. A DCO is a Digtal Controlled (Analog) Oscillator. A lot of synths with a complete analog sound path have that like Juno-106 and the Prophet 08. Thats even a DCO synth where you can't save patches (the Juno-6). I have a Moog Sub-37 and a Prophet-6, both are fully analog with VCOs but, of course, you can save patches on them just like their analog fore fathers the MemoryMoog and the Prophet-5.

[theEmbark]

Aw okay that makes a little more sense I was a bit confused by that haha. Do you have any links to sites that speak a bit more about the analog synth world? Just so I can read up a bit more. I know I like how they sound and I know some basics from playing with Massive for years but I don't really have a good understanding of some of the terminology and functions of synths.

Thanks,
Kevin

[mikefellh]

I think you got things mixed up. A DCO has nothing to do with the ability to save patches. A DCO is a Digtal Controlled (Analog) Oscillator.

In order to have memory/bank storage you need SOME digital control.

In a pure pure analog synth the pots and levers are part of the synth circuit itself; moving the pot changes the electrical resistance and that changes the sound.

However in something with memory this has to be done by digital control…while you may still have rotary controls they don't change the electrical resistance of the synth circuit directly…the controls tell the digital circuit their position, and the digital circuit changes the electrical resistance of the synth circuit.

Because this is done, when it recalls a previously saved patch it can change resistances without having to move the pots with motors.

Same with any switches…instead of actually engaging or disengaging part of the synth circuit, they tell a digital circuit what position they're in, and that circuit then alters the synth circuit.

If all this wasn't taking place, how would the saved memory change the electrical resistances to the synth circuit?

[kohitsu]

There's a difference between a DCO, and a VCO which has parameters that can be controlled digitally

DCOs are a specific type of analog oscillator that are adjusted digitally to keep them in tune by dividing down a really high frequency clock.

Synths like the Prophet 5 or MFB Dominion 1 or Sub 37 have VCOs which have their parameters changed by a microprocessor. They aren't DCOs because their tuning isn't being kept in check by the cpu.

[ImNotDedYet]

Try out a BassStation 2. ($500) If you can go a bit more expensive, a used Little or Sub Phatty from Moog. ($500 - $800) If you can drop the preset saving requirement - Microbrute/Minibrute and MS-20 MIni would be good alternatives in the same $500 price range. The Sub37 is a whole lot of synth for bass/leads and knob per function functionality at $1500.
Minitaur ($500) for bass only if you like the Moog sound and are ok with a bass-specific synth. Not sure about it saving presets
Korg Minilogue ($500) for polyphonic, although some of the Yamaha Reface or Roland Botique's may work for you as well in around this price range.
Roland TR-8 for drums, although Elektron also just dropped the prices on the Machinedrum as well, so a non-UW Machinedrum can be bought for about the same price as a TR-8. ($500)
Mackie mixer or better yet A & H. ($400 - $700 or so, depending on channels, model, etc)

And look through the used sales lists trying to find bargains. (Yamaha FM synths can usually be had for $200 - $500, depending on the synth, older grooveboxes like Electribes, MPC's for about $500)

You can get a LOT of bang for your buck for $3500 or less.