Key Switches / Articulations

[sean9999]

Hi,

Is there a way of setting and changing key switches with nora phrases. I use VSL symphonic stuff a lot. Their key switches generally work as a combination of:
- Key (eg C0)
- CC (eg CC 25, value 25)

I can simplify key switches to a minimal set so only key based switches are required.

Can this be done?

If not are there any plans?

Regards
Sean, Australia

[squaredheads]

The short reply is "Yes, there are plans".

Then long one is:
I never used such kind of plugins that requests key switches. While I have a lot of vague ideas about how to include it, I feel a little lost about how it really works. And the most important factor to the equation is: Whatever it happens, Nora must be nimble, with zero junky controls. It means that one feature much cover lots of needs and still it needs to be intuitive to use.

I've already modified a lot of things and maybe this feature may be covered with another one, but if it isn't, I will do a public poll about how would be the perfect way to include it (once everyone see the modifications).

Examples of these vague ideas:
- Double click a note to open a popup window where you can add aditional midi messages (Like a note, Program Change... etc).
- One (optionally visible) lane at the bottom where you can add a midi message.
- Instead just one lane, few of them.
- And others ideas I cannot say until you see the modifications I'm doing.

However a warning message: This must be something that a vast majority of developers use in their audio plugins. We as Squaredheads cannot support just one developer (unless they pay us!)

[sean9999]

Hi

Thanks for the quick response. Let me know if you need input - most sample libraries and players have converged on the same thing (keys and ccs combined) with the simpler libraries just using keys.

Regards
Sean

[squaredheads]

Well, someone pointed me to how to use keys (just keys) to achieve this effect. But he was telling me how one plugin work (Sampletank). My conclusion after reading its comments was that only one key could be used at the same time. However I must test it personally.

Is this still valid for your VSL plugins? How does CC fit here?

Here is the link of the old thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7#p6288507

[nexussynth]

this feature is mostly of great use to those using Kontakt Orchestral libraries and a few non-orchestral as well.

the keyswitches are mainly mapped at the bottom of an 88 key controller but some are mapped at the bottom of the keyrange for a particular instrument. heck, some are even mapped above the keyrange or at the top of the keyboard!

having a lane under each track where these note events could be inserted after the fact would be most useful...

[squaredheads]

Yes, thank for the extra information. I have planned a simple midi message system that could be used for that purpose and others, like sending program changes to switch between presets if the synth allow that. But I'm still looking for the best way to do it.

[xbitz]

this is how it works in Cubase



needs some dedicated notes and a pane which drives them(and save/load button for the different VSTs), I would create dedicated clip type to it (articulation clip which also would be pattern based), so the already exists (chord chopper)patterns would able to use different articulations, would be good if we won't have to create unique patterns just because the different articulations but a unified editor(with common timeline) which can handle both clip types together as on the picture

[squaredheads]

Thank you for the clear picture. It really illustrates me and it fits my concept of "message roll".

Probabily it's already done in the next update, using a very simple and painless workaround. That workaround wouln't be in a single unified editor, because they would be different sequences.

I have two options here, and I will do (only) one of them in a future:

1. Create dedicated "message roll" for each grid, like in Cubase
Pros: Easier to see in the Phrase editor, like Cubase. Sequences would be saved with the messages, which is comfortable.

Cons: Sequences would be saved with the messages (and it may not be valid for each), you would need unique patterns for each switch variation.

2. Allowing a parallel secondary phrase editor.
Pros: You can mix different phrases with different switches without doing them uniques. Sequences would be saved without the messages (they may be saved indepently). Easier to code, since I would take advantage from the existant features.

Cons: A bit more difficult to see since you have to manage two horizontal scrolls (I could create an option to link them). Sequences would be saved without the messages so you would need to manage two saves. It would need a bigger screen.

[xbitz]

vote for the second it's not just uniques should work with looped patterns too

[nexussynth]

a vote for the first one

[Protocol_b]

+1 for the second one, I agree it should work for looped patterns. Personally I don't worry too much about saving in NORA because pattern/switch combo's are always unique to the particular song so I just let them get saved with the project in my DAW. Just to expand on the discussion, it's far more than just Kontakt libraries, it's any sampler/ROMpler like SampleTank, HALion/Sonic etc. right back to the days of Gigasampler. More than symphonic libraries too, I have many things like drum sequencers, step sequencers and effects processors that run in HALion, Kontact, SampleTank or the DAW that all use key-switches and-or program change. Key switches are the most well-established & time-honored function in Sampler/ROMpler-land.

I'm pretty big on this issue because I don't USE a host in the standard sense, that is, I don't have any MIDI tracks. I use a host simply to contain my instruments/step-sequencers/arpeggiators and to route my signals to them in various ways and to eventually record the audio. For me it's all about live playing (there's actually a lot of us live players). (On the subject of pitchbend per that link above, you're correct, most all instruments allow you to re-assign pitchbend to a cc of your choice.)

[squaredheads]

I'm pretty big on this issue because I don't USE a host in the standard sense, that is, I don't have any MIDI tracks. I use a host simply to contain my instruments/step-sequencers/arpeggiators and to route my signals to them in various ways and to eventually record the audio. For me it's all about live playing (there's actually a lot of us live players). (On the subject of pitchbend per that link above, you're correct, most all instruments allow you to re-assign pitchbend to a cc of your choice.)

Hmmmm. Then the second one method, as I thought it, isn't a solution for you. Because the secondary sequence couldn't be triggered with the first phrase (they have unique clocks). In other words, if you play the phrase without using the Play button in your DAW or using the internal sync clock mode, only the Phrase clock would start.

The most probable thing is that I implement an hibrid method, offering the best of two worlds, but it won't be in the next update (still, it will offer a small facility for this issue).

[Protocol_b]

But I actually do engage the transport in the DAW, so not a problem for me. I keep the clock running to align everything, and also because I use Five12 Numerology, and it requires that I be in 'play' mode. So we're good on that 'play' thing!

[Protocol_b]

... that is, as long as both both sequencers would start/restart in tandem and stay locked to each other... or do you mean that the secondary sequence will just blindly start playing as soon as I press 'play'?

[squaredheads]

Yes, that means. If the switches have their own clock, they would play like the arpeggiator with the 'host sync' clock settings. I think I may link both clocks, but that will be done after the feedback of the future improvements, when I find the perfect way of doing it.

However if the data is in the same sequence, all the data is triggered always by the same clock (but they share the sequence).