Prices to low?( "If its to cheap it must be bad, right?")Sound sets, Birdhouses and craftshow prices
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
$10 is about my limit for buying preset packs. I do not equate low cost to low value in the preset world, especially when many of the best are completely free.
Many banks are limited to 128 max or usually well under 100. It's hard to find value in a $20+ pack of 50 presets when entire Kontakt instruments exist for less. Biome Digital's "Rhymes With Rogue" is something like $6 right now. My guess is that many, many hours were sunk into that.
That said, I love The Unfinished's work on Massive and I trust Xenos' packs to be very good or better.
Many banks are limited to 128 max or usually well under 100. It's hard to find value in a $20+ pack of 50 presets when entire Kontakt instruments exist for less. Biome Digital's "Rhymes With Rogue" is something like $6 right now. My guess is that many, many hours were sunk into that.
That said, I love The Unfinished's work on Massive and I trust Xenos' packs to be very good or better.
Last edited by MogwaiBoy on Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
I disagree. I don't understand how customers could think that. A $2 pack and a $20 pack were both made on the same synth. Neither author could claim to know the synth better (and thus produce presets better) than the other, based on price. The author of the $2 preset pack could be a total wizard, hell maybe he even created the synth itself!Krezie wrote:This sure is an interesting topic, and I can understand that customers might think that a cheaper soundset more likely could be bad than a more expensive set, or is a sort of B-quality set.
I dare someone to set up a blind test comparing $0.04 Massive presets to $0.40 Massive presets, with a sprinkling of freebies for good measure. Spot the difference! Oh, in many cases there isn't any
PS Sorry I accidentally PM'd you instead of replying in this thread. Facepalm
- KVRist
- 200 posts since 27 Apr, 2015 from Planet Earth
interesting topic - i was wondering the same :)higher price - higher expectations and more probably disappointment - lower price ,nice surprise hihihi
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 5 Feb, 2016
As a buyer, I agree that demos are necessary. Thankfully, many sellers have demos. If I like the demo, I don't care so much as long as the price is within my budget. However, Lotuzia has a point and I may have been fooled by demos before.
As for sellers, I think the existence of good free alternatives can also be a factor. It's not just the expensive ones, a small seller also needs to compete with free alternatives. Especially if his product is not "orders of mangitude" better (or bigger) than what is available for free. It can also mean that the seller is not that concerned about profit, but is looking for someting a little bit better than sharing his creations for free, at least to cover the practical expenses of making things available. That's probably more effective than making something free, then asking for donations.
As for sellers, I think the existence of good free alternatives can also be a factor. It's not just the expensive ones, a small seller also needs to compete with free alternatives. Especially if his product is not "orders of mangitude" better (or bigger) than what is available for free. It can also mean that the seller is not that concerned about profit, but is looking for someting a little bit better than sharing his creations for free, at least to cover the practical expenses of making things available. That's probably more effective than making something free, then asking for donations.
Signal Experiments
http://sig-ex.com
http://sig-ex.com
- KVRist
- 258 posts since 1 Jun, 2015 from Netherlands
No problem You're forgivenMogwaiBoy wrote: PS Sorry I accidentally PM'd you instead of replying in this thread. Facepalm
You are completely right about the fact that the authors could deliver the same quality; the cheap set could even be way better. A free pack could even be top notch and the best there is to offer for a certain synth. The price says nothing about the quality.MogwaiBoy wrote:I disagree. I don't understand how customers could think that. A $2 pack and a $20 pack were both made on the same synth. Neither author could claim to know the synth better (and thus produce presets better) than the other, based on price. The author of the $2 preset pack could be a total wizard, hell maybe he even created the synth itself!
But I think there's a subconscious psychological factor too in play here for some of the customer population, and they even might not be aware of this (the thought that cheap = less quality / B-quality and more expensive = better quality).
And yes, some of the customer population won't be affected by this in their buying decision.
But in my opinion; it's there. I think the poll so far shows this too (luckily just a little bit).
Of course there's another side to this too. Like VilianTroy said already; high expectations from an expensive package and the disappointment if it doesn't meet expectations.
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- KVRAF
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
We dont make expensive soundsets, but most are over the 10$ bar. For good reasons (explained in my post above)Krezie wrote:.........
Of course there's another side to this too. Like VilianTroy said already; high expectations from an expensive package and the disappointment if it doesn't meet expectations.
Then, we have sold thousands of soundbanks over years, and have received a lot of positive comments, ..... and never a negative one. Yes, I've never received a single email if only saying 'i regret to have bought one of your soundbanks'.
There must be some reasons for that ...
A lot of people fail to see the real economy behing soft instruments : It's not a mass market ( like comparing video games sales ). It has nothing to do with that. It's a very small lilliputian market, where you have to find users wich correspond to your work, and NOT disapoint them. Not very complicated at 1rst view. But no so easy to transpose in reality as well. Be yourself, price your products right, and prey so that you connect with your natural community of users are the only advices I'd give to someone wnating to put a feet in this micro industry. my 0.002.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
- KVRist
- 258 posts since 1 Jun, 2015 from Netherlands
Hi Lotuzia,Lotuzia wrote: We dont make expensive soundsets, but most are over the 10$ bar. For good reasons (explained in my post above)
Please don't take this personal. That is certainly not how I meant it. I just meant that there are two sides on the same coin if we look at the connection between expectation and pricing of a soundset. Cheap and expensive has to do with how someone perceives a price too, and is thus a somewhat subjective classification.
I don't think that your soundsets are over-expensive. I think that my own soundsets fall in the same price range if I look at pricing and amount of presets in the sets.
And I know that creating presets is a lot of work, and I dare to say that for a big part it is a labour of love too. You're right that it is a micro market. It's very hard to really earn with it what it's worth in hours spent on creating.
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- KVRAF
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
HellOo Krazie,Krezie wrote:Hi Lotuzia,Lotuzia wrote: We dont make expensive soundsets, but most are over the 10$ bar. For good reasons (explained in my post above)
Please don't take this personal. That is certainly not how I meant it. I just meant that there are two sides on the same coin if we look at the connection between expectation and pricing of a soundset. Cheap and expensive has to do with how someone perceives a price too, and is thus a somewhat subjective classification.
I don't think that your soundsets are over-expensive. I think that my own soundsets fall in the same price range if I look at pricing and amount of presets in the sets.
And I know that creating presets is a lot of work, and I dare to say that for a big part it is a labour of love too. You're right that it is a micro market. It's very hard to really earn with it what it's worth in hours spent on creating.
No worries, I did not take it personal at all. I quoted the part of your post that interested me to explain how I see/do things. If your work is pro, and that you give users objective elements to judge your soundsets and get a good idea of your work before they push the red button ( separate presets audio demos), you'll barely have ANY unhappy customer. Well, at the very least, this is my experience. fwiw.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
I see what you mean now, and I agree - consumer psychology is always at play. Why else would something be $9.99 and not $10... we've become accustomed to these things. The perception is not only spending more = more value for money, but there is another game at play... vanity/status, even bragging rights. I find it hard to believe something like that can even seep down to the ultra-niche synth preset market, but perhaps it is there, deep in the psyche.Krezie wrote: But I think there's a subconscious psychological factor too in play here for some of the customer population, and they even might not be aware of this (the thought that cheap = less quality / B-quality and more expensive = better quality).
And yes, some of the customer population won't be affected by this in their buying decision.
But in my opinion; it's there. I think the poll so far shows this too (luckily just a little bit).
The audiophile world blows my mind. $10,000 speaker cables that move electrons in specific patterns conducive to improved fidelity. Diamond record player feet and so on. Just... wow
- KVRAF
- 2373 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
Hey, thanks for the mention! It's just under £7 at the moment https://www.biomedigital.com/downloads/ ... ogue-leads.MogwaiBoy wrote:
Many banks are limited to 128 max or usually well under 100. It's hard to find value in a $20+ pack of 50 presets when entire Kontakt instruments exist for less. Biome Digital's "Rhymes With Rogue" is something like $6 right now. My guess is that many, many hours were sunk into that.
Yes, it took months. It is all analogue multi-samples so they had be sampled, but also the patches on the analogue synths made first! Then loop points had to be set and different sampler formats saved.
Rhymes with rogue - leads is in 4 formats as well (Live, Kontakt, Reason and Zampler (soundfonts), and they are not just dropped in to the samplers but each one a "patch". Check out the Zampler patches for example, I have not seen anything this complex in Zampler!
Of course graphics for reason's combinator and kontakt, not to mention the cost of scripting all adds up. But this pack is not just a preset pack, its a bit of a strange mixture.
I personally pay whatever I have to to get the tools done, but then I own £500 orchestral kontakt libraries and the like.
Free VS Paid?
It's all down to the person who produced it! Take my 2 HIVE preset packs for example - every patch carefully made and tested, aftertouch modulations, mod wheel assignments, pitchwheel set to 12, volumes well balanced etc... all little details from experience.
Plus PDF user guide and in the case of HIVE, extra midi and audio loops. That is more of a product I feel than some kid in a bedroom who has zipped up his noodlings. :hihi
People know who make serious products and who don't after trying them. But I agree demo packs are essential, I rarely buy if I can't demo.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
- KVRAF
- 2373 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide
Also, forgot to comment on "the less than $10 for a preset pack". Thing is, how long does it take you to make those 128 presets if you done them yourself. A bit longer than an hour or 2 I expect!
Sometimes its worth paying someone else to save you time and hassle.
Sometimes its worth paying someone else to save you time and hassle.
Dune 3 presets! - https://newloops.com/collections/dune-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets
Diva, Hive, Repro, Presets - https://newloops.com/collections/u-he-synths-presets
185 Omnisphere Presets https://newloops.com/products/omnispher ... -2-presets