How Would You Rate This Analog Filter Emulation

[Ingonator]

That filter does not seem to be based on a zero delay feedback filter. Those or a real analog usually create a better quality at self oscillation and usually they create a pleasing Sine like sound and not such a piercing sound like in teh fisrt demo.

I haven't listened to the sound demos, but i can assure that being zero delay feedback or not does not directly relate to sound quality. A zero delay feedback filter can sound like utter crap, same with a filter not using zero delay feedback. It's just that modern, "good sounding" filters usually utilize zero delay feedback technology to sound well with extreme settings/modulations. At least that's the way i understood it. You surely won't be able to hear if, in this case, it is a zero delay feedback filter or not, just judging from the perceived sound quality.

For extreme settings like self oscilation (and also audio rate modulation of the filter) a zero delay feedback filter could be indeed important and with all synth that use this so far at self oscillation they seem to sound very close to real analogs.
Usually what you get at proper self oscillation is not an "ear piercing" sound like in those demos here but more a less a pusre sine wave. With filter key tracking and peopre calibration of the pitch by the Cutoff (which is teh only way with self oscillation and no Oscs used) you coudl get e.g. nice Sine Lead sounds. I have one of those included with my Waldorf Pulse 2 factory presets and have also done those with some plugins (mostly those with zero delay feedback filters which includes e.g. Diva, Suarus, Monark and the Xils Lab synths).

With proper cutoff and envelope settings you could use the Sine created by Self-oscilation to create a nice kick drum sound. BTW this works nicely with teh filter included in Xils Lab StiX that has the last generation of Xils Lab's zero delay feedback filters.

[ghettosynth]

That filter does not seem to be based on a zero delay feedback filter. Those or a real analog usually create a better quality at self oscillation and usually they create a pleasing Sine like sound and not such a piercing sound like in teh fisrt demo.

I haven't listened to the sound demos, but i can assure that being zero delay feedback or not does not directly relate to sound quality. A zero delay feedback filter can sound like utter crap, same with a filter not using zero delay feedback. It's just that modern, "good sounding" filters usually utilize zero delay feedback technology to sound well with extreme settings/modulations. At least that's the way i understood it. You surely won't be able to hear if, in this case, it is a zero delay feedback filter or not, just judging from the perceived sound quality.

I think that there's some confusion regarding what people mean when they refer to their expectation of a zdf filter. Yes, a zdf filter can sound bad, i.e., there's more to a good filter than zdf, and, some non-zdf filters sound ok, but at extreme settings, it's not clear to me that non-zdf filters can sound as good as the same filter using zdf techniques, in practice.

So, in practice, what synth has a non-zdf filter that competes with the current best of crop zdf filters? With all due respect, I can think of none, they all fall down at extremes, even when over-sampled.

Name one that sounds as good as any of the current blocks modules? Can you name any Reaktor core filter that is non-zdf that sounds good to your ears?

It's pretty much the state of the art and you might as well not even play if you aren't going to step up to that plate.

[chk071]

That filter does not seem to be based on a zero delay feedback filter. Those or a real analog usually create a better quality at self oscillation and usually they create a pleasing Sine like sound and not such a piercing sound like in teh fisrt demo.

I haven't listened to the sound demos, but i can assure that being zero delay feedback or not does not directly relate to sound quality. A zero delay feedback filter can sound like utter crap, same with a filter not using zero delay feedback. It's just that modern, "good sounding" filters usually utilize zero delay feedback technology to sound well with extreme settings/modulations. At least that's the way i understood it. You surely won't be able to hear if, in this case, it is a zero delay feedback filter or not, just judging from the perceived sound quality.

I think that there's some confusion regarding what people mean when they refer to their expectation of a zdf filter. Yes, a zdf filter can sound bad, i.e., there's more to a good filter than zdf, and, some non-zdf filters sound ok, but at extreme settings, it's not clear to me that non-zdf filters can sound as good as the same filter using zdf techniques, in practice.

Well, that's what i wrote, basically. If or not you need the last detail of analog modelling is another question. I'm happy with my "proud" digital synths, as well as some dedicated "analog" modelling ones. Horses for courses really. I don't need a Monark filter on every synths. Actually, it would even be counterproductive, because sometimes, i rather want a clean sound, instead of having a hard time to get rid of that distortion, and saturated sound.

[Ingonator]

That filter does not seem to be based on a zero delay feedback filter. Those or a real analog usually create a better quality at self oscillation and usually they create a pleasing Sine like sound and not such a piercing sound like in teh fisrt demo.

I haven't listened to the sound demos, but i can assure that being zero delay feedback or not does not directly relate to sound quality. A zero delay feedback filter can sound like utter crap, same with a filter not using zero delay feedback. It's just that modern, "good sounding" filters usually utilize zero delay feedback technology to sound well with extreme settings/modulations. At least that's the way i understood it. You surely won't be able to hear if, in this case, it is a zero delay feedback filter or not, just judging from the perceived sound quality.

I think that there's some confusion regarding what people mean when they refer to their expectation of a zdf filter. Yes, a zdf filter can sound bad, i.e., there's more to a good filter than zdf, and, some non-zdf filters sound ok, but at extreme settings, it's not clear to me that non-zdf filters can sound as good as the same filter using zdf techniques, in practice.

Well, that's what i wrote, basically. If or not you need the last detail of analog modelling is another question. I'm happy with my "proud" digital synths, as well as some dedicated "analog" modelling ones. Horses for courses really. I don't need a Monark filter on every synths. Actually, it would even be counterproductive, because sometimes, i rather want a clean sound, instead of having a hard time to get rid of that distortion, and saturated sound.

That's nice if it works for you but we are talking about extreme fiilter settings here.

Talking about "clean" sounds as i already tried to point out at proper filter self oscillation (without using an oscillator) you should get a clean Sine wave and not jsut a distorted and/or "ear piercing" sound (while with additional drive/saturation you could also add distortion to a proper self oscillating filter).
I had used a bunch of real analogs (and still got 3 synths with rael analog filters here at the moment) and also multiple synth with zero delay feedback filters and opposing to a bunch of plugins with non zdf filter those always seemed to create proper Sine like sounds. You could the use the Cutoff for tuning the pitch and if you want to play a self oscillating filter as a proper patch you need to use filter key tracking at 100% which properly tracks the pitch of the whole key range. With key tracking at 0 all notes will create the same pitch.

BTW a bunch of digital synths and/or old (or not so good..) emulations are not capable of self oscillation at all while this also seemed to be the case with certain real analogs.

[ghettosynth]

That filter does not seem to be based on a zero delay feedback filter. Those or a real analog usually create a better quality at self oscillation and usually they create a pleasing Sine like sound and not such a piercing sound like in teh fisrt demo.

I haven't listened to the sound demos, but i can assure that being zero delay feedback or not does not directly relate to sound quality. A zero delay feedback filter can sound like utter crap, same with a filter not using zero delay feedback. It's just that modern, "good sounding" filters usually utilize zero delay feedback technology to sound well with extreme settings/modulations. At least that's the way i understood it. You surely won't be able to hear if, in this case, it is a zero delay feedback filter or not, just judging from the perceived sound quality.

I think that there's some confusion regarding what people mean when they refer to their expectation of a zdf filter. Yes, a zdf filter can sound bad, i.e., there's more to a good filter than zdf, and, some non-zdf filters sound ok, but at extreme settings, it's not clear to me that non-zdf filters can sound as good as the same filter using zdf techniques, in practice.

Well, that's what i wrote, basically. If or not you need the last detail of analog modelling is another question. I'm happy with my "proud" digital synths, as well as some dedicated "analog" modelling ones. Horses for courses really. I don't need a Monark filter on every synths. Actually, it would even be counterproductive, because sometimes, i rather want a clean sound, instead of having a hard time to get rid of that distortion, and saturated sound.

You don't need a monark style filter to leverage zdf. Have you heard the other filters in blocks? The Modern filter is quite smooth and sounds great.

I use a lot of synths that have bad filters and I know the filters are bad but I still like the synth. Pretty much every single NI synth that isn't in Reaktor comes to mind. Some of the filters in Massive have character, but it's still clear that they aren't zdf and you have to be careful not to push them too hard.

Still, I use FM8 and Absynth quite a bit, but that's because as synths, they are more than their filters.

[ghettosynth]

man, it's TWO f'ing clicks and you download the file. go to the bottom of the page and click the big orange download box.

unless it turns out to be a site where at a casual glance what looks to be the download button is an ad and the real download is another link

Right, and they change weekly it seems.

but regardless of that... it is not just 2 clicks... it is 2 clicks to download, then a couple clicks to go to the download folder to find it (oh crap, what was the name of that file again?), right click to open, listen, go back to the download folder and click to delete the file then click to go back to what I was doing.

I figure for these sorts of cases, which require a download, I do it maybe 5-10% of the time compared to being able to just listen to it. I didn't download in this instance.

and hey, if someone wants to post audio as a download, they are free to do so... just as I'm free to pass it by

This is what I'm saying. Put it on youtube, embed the video and you will get a much better response. That is, in fact, one click, and that's all anyone gets from me anymore. If you don't make it one click, you're going to get a grumpy admonition to make it one click.

I was making the statement in general, I think that most of this stuff is a waste of time without context and I'd kind of already written off the OPs efforts because there's no context at all.

[pdxindy]

Well, that's what i wrote, basically. If or not you need the last detail of analog modelling is another question. I'm happy with my "proud" digital synths, as well as some dedicated "analog" modelling ones. Horses for courses really. I don't need a Monark filter on every synths. Actually, it would even be counterproductive, because sometimes, i rather want a clean sound, instead of having a hard time to get rid of that distortion, and saturated sound.

analog filters are not by definition distorted and heavily saturated... some are, some are not... it also depends very much on how you drive them whether they are clean or saturated... and this is also where the modern ZDF filters are better... how they handle the range of input levels.

[thecontrolcentre]

I assume that you're trying to be funny

I assume you're determined to be grumpy. No wonder you didn't get any cards.

[Ingonator]

You don't need a monark style filter to leverage zdf. Have you heard the other filters in blocks? The Modern filter is quite smooth and sounds great.

There seem to be more and more synth with zero delay feedback filters while there are still not really many.

A selection:

- free: OBXD, Charlatan, MauSynth

- commercial: Diva, Saurus, all Xils Lab synths (includimg the new StiX drum synth), NI Monark, Reaktor 6 Blocks (e.g. Monark Blocks), D16 LuSH-101, TAL Bassline-101, TAL U-NO-LX V2, TAL-Sampler, Waves Element 2, DiscoDSP Corona, Disco DSP Discovery Pro 6

[trimph1]

Maybe I am kind of spoiled for filters here...having several hardware types around, then again, maybe not so much. To me, it justs sounds sort of meh....to my ears.

Arturia's minibrute series with their metalizer and brutalizer filters plus a shermann filterbank I bought recently seem to do a lot better.

IMO that is...others may vary

[ghettosynth]

You don't need a monark style filter to leverage zdf. Have you heard the other filters in blocks? The Modern filter is quite smooth and sounds great.

There seem to be more and more synth with zero delay feedback filters while there are still not really many.

A selection:

- free: OBXD, Charlatan, MauSynth

- commercial: Diva, Saurus, all Xils Lab synths (includimg the new StiX drum synth), NI Monark, Reaktor 6 Blocks (e.g. Monark Blocks), D16 LuSH-101, TAL Bassline-101, TAL U-NO-LX V2, TAL-Sampler, Waves Element 2, DiscoDSP Corona, Disco DSP Discovery Pro 6

No doubt, which is part of what makes synth shopping really easy these days.

[fluffy_little_something]

I am never sure what "pushing a filter hard" means in the first place, is this an example?
https://app.box.com/s/mxbna7158w2b47ox0eaz7y3onmpi6pbq
Despite playing just a single wave/note, the CPU is working hard judging from the Windows monitor

[AnX]

You don't need a monark style filter to leverage zdf. Have you heard the other filters in blocks? The Modern filter is quite smooth and sounds great.

There seem to be more and more synth with zero delay feedback filters while there are still not really many.

A selection:

- free: OBXD, Charlatan, MauSynth

- commercial: Diva, Saurus, all Xils Lab synths (includimg the new StiX drum synth), NI Monark, Reaktor 6 Blocks (e.g. Monark Blocks), D16 LuSH-101, TAL Bassline-101, TAL U-NO-LX V2, TAL-Sampler, Waves Element 2, DiscoDSP Corona, Disco DSP Discovery Pro 6

Dune 2 also has ZDFF's

[fluffy_little_something]

TAL's free Noizemaker also has a 0df LP filter.
There are probably many more, maybe also some popular synths whose developers have never even mentioned it.

[ENV1]

I think that most of this stuff is a waste of time without context and I'd kind of already written off the OPs efforts because there's no context at all.

Your helplessness is starting to depress me, so let me spell it out for you.

Agenda: See how people rate this particular filter without knowing what synth it is from, further whether there is consent among the participants with regard to the filters quality.

Background: One of these things that people sometimes do on a sunday afternoon in a music forum.

Your Mission: To boldly go where many have downloaded before, listen, then rate. (I mean what else could it be, dangit.)

You didnt have any problems downloading from that same host when i posted the clips in the 2600 thread so i think its pretty safe to say that this time wont be any different...