KVR Audio

mmoncur · Post by **mmoncur** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:10 pm

Can we get an official ruling on bit crushers? Because it seems like they cross the line to me. On the other hand I'll gladly use them if they're allowed...

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:24 pm

mmoncur wrote:Can we get an official ruling on bit crushers? Because it seems like they cross the line to me. On the other hand I'll gladly use them if they're allowed...

My understanding is that they are not allowed.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:24 pm

Had the same feeling, but I guess moderation is the clue. Again, it's been used many times before, sometimes for some very prominent licks and breaks. I use it only if I have to for certain percussion and not prominently. Not this time, though (thus far).

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:27 pm

If bit crushers are allowed then the OSC rules are stupid. I'm sorry, it had to be said. I really don't even care anymore because I hardly enter anymore but to be able to use something that can totally change the sound is just stupid. Why do we have rules at all? Why can't we just use whatever FX we want? Why can't I use my Fabfilter EQ and compression? Why do I have to use this crappy Cubase stuff?

Pointless. All just totally pointless.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:41 pm

wagtunes wrote:If bit crushers are allowed then the OSC rules are stupid. I'm sorry, it had to be said. I really don't even care anymore because I hardly enter anymore but to be able to use something that can totally change the sound is just stupid. Why do we have rules at all? Why can't we just use whatever FX we want? Why can't I use my Fabfilter EQ and compression? Why do I have to use this crappy Cubase stuff?

Pointless. All just totally pointless.

It's all just a bit of fun man, lighten up

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:54 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:
wagtunes wrote:If bit crushers are allowed then the OSC rules are stupid. I'm sorry, it had to be said. I really don't even care anymore because I hardly enter anymore but to be able to use something that can totally change the sound is just stupid. Why do we have rules at all? Why can't we just use whatever FX we want? Why can't I use my Fabfilter EQ and compression? Why do I have to use this crappy Cubase stuff?

Pointless. All just totally pointless.
It's all just a bit of fun man, lighten up

Ha..ha.. The same arguments came up when I was entering the Cafe competition regularly for years, years ago, <wink>
My point then was the same as now: I'm with wagtunes somehow in theory, the fun is more if there are rules, a game with no rules is not fun to me.
(Amazing to me I wrote the same years ago) Anyway I guess I'm again in a minority as I was at that time.
But to be clear I enjoy OSC even as it is.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:09 pm

liqih wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:
wagtunes wrote:If bit crushers are allowed then the OSC rules are stupid. I'm sorry, it had to be said. I really don't even care anymore because I hardly enter anymore but to be able to use something that can totally change the sound is just stupid. Why do we have rules at all? Why can't we just use whatever FX we want? Why can't I use my Fabfilter EQ and compression? Why do I have to use this crappy Cubase stuff?

Pointless. All just totally pointless.
It's all just a bit of fun man, lighten up
Ha..ha.. The same arguments came up when I was entering the Cafe competition regularly for years, years ago, <wink>
My point then was the same as now: I'm with wagtunes somehow in theory, the fun is more if there are rules, a game with no rules is not fun to me.
(Amazing to me I wrote the same years ago) Anyway I guess I'm again in a minority as I was at that time.
But to be clear I enjoy OSC even as it is.

Fair call. To me it's clear though, bit crushers are not allowed. Like it or not, them's the rules.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:12 pm

Check my first OSC entry, hahaha, I hardly even used EQ, because I thought it was really about showing off what the synth can produce. It might've been the very same OSC where suddenly a fantastic D'n'B song popped out a massive break with a bitcrushed sound that was gorgeous, but had nothing left of the synth's character then. Pretty sure it was top 5, too. Needless to mention the massive EQ stuff that can introduce vowel like sounds the synth couldn't dream of pulling out.
But after the brief shock I just accepted the possibilities and only felt liberated to use EQ more heavily, really leading to some massive improvements of my mixes and allowing me to make some fairly nice tunes.
At the end it really, really is the music that has to work and no mixing trick in the world can replace that.
Not that I would disagree with sticking to stricter rules, but if someone feels like a crushed sound brings him the needed joy...it's really just controlled "bad quality" and it should be tough to prohibit that, hahaha.

Above all else: Enjoy yourself, enjoy the creativity of everyone and try to embrace all that is allowed to realize your very own vision!

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:22 pm

Well, I read the rules and I followed it, not knowing that the rules can be bent

..but never mind. I did it for fun. I never win anything in my entire life so I don't go into this with any high hopes. But I love U-he stuff and it's fun to see how far you can take a synth like Podolski and still keep it genuine. It's more of a personal challenge.

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:36 pm

Taron wrote: Above all else: Enjoy yourself, enjoy the creativity of everyone and try to embrace all that is allowed to realize your very own vision!

Yes, that's generally true, but is this a Challenge competition or not?
And if it's a challenge to get the most of the selected synth, the less you use
the own synth limits the less challenging it is, and it becomes just a composers creativity competition instead.
Well we can have mix of those of course, as it's now and it's still interesting and fun.
So no complains by me.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:08 pm

It's almost ironic that I'd be playing the "Devil's Advocate", because I'm 99% with you guys, though the 1% is the little reminder that this IS about the realistic use of a synth as much as anything else, making it challenging and rewarding enough to focus on the restriction to have only it as sound source. The other most beautiful restriction is only to use FREE vsts to arrange and mix it all. In my books, to be totally honest, I would lift modulation restrictions as well, making it totally legit to use chorus or flangers or whatnot, as long as they're all free. Only sampling and then goofing around with the samples I would keep as restriction, because that's when it gets really too weird.
I'm saying that, because really, you can totally create chorus and flanger effects by using multiple instances of a synth, thus only making it difficult to achieve those effects, yet, not impossible.

I don't know... maybe I ended up pretty cool about all this, because I'm not in it for the prices, nor have I ever been. I find it completely exciting to create all instruments with one and the same synth and see what everyone makes of it. It's not a sporting event, in my books, but a musical celebration of a specific synth. Honor it enough to take advantage of its character and I wouldn't fault what ever comes out of it!

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:10 pm

Taron wrote:It's almost ironic that I'd be playing the "Devil's Advocate", because I'm 99% with you guys, though the 1% is the little reminder that this IS about the realistic use of a synth as much as anything else, making it challenging and rewarding enough to focus on the restriction to have only it as sound source. The other most beautiful restriction is only to use FREE vsts to arrange and mix it all. In my books, to be totally honest, I would lift modulation restrictions as well, making it totally legit to use chorus or flangers or whatnot, as long as they're all free. Only sampling and then goofing around with the samples I would keep as restriction, because that's when it gets really too weird.
I'm saying that, because really, you can totally create chorus and flanger effects by using multiple instances of a synth, thus only making it difficult to achieve those effects, yet, not impossible.

I don't know... maybe I ended up pretty cool about all this, because I'm not in it for the prices, nor have I ever been. I find it completely exciting to create all instruments with one and the same synth and see what everyone makes of it. It's not a sporting event, in my books, but a musical celebration of a specific synth. Honor it enough to take advantage of its character and I wouldn't fault what ever comes out of it!

Taron, I've always loved your attitude about things. Keep fighting the good fight.

eraze the borders · Post by **eraze the borders** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:11 pm

Quite a discussion going on here. I totally understand that it's essential to have rules and to stick to them. Without rules the contest would be pointless. On the other hand it is not easy to say where to draw the line. Personally i think it's very nice to have possibilities beyond the limitations of the synth.
I guess in the end it all depends on the dosage. Btw: I would be fine not using bit crushers. I was just wondering because they would help me making better percussion sounds.

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:18 pm

Taron wrote: Only sampling and then goofing around with the samples I would keep as restriction, because that's when it gets really too weird.
I'm saying that, because really, you can totally create chorus and flanger effects by using multiple instances of a synth, thus only making it difficult to achieve those effects, yet, not impossible.

BTW using fluxes of short overlapping notes, 1/128 or less,
and a fair high BPM you can have granular synthesis, the synth used would be unrecognizable
and no rule would be broken.

I don't know... maybe I ended up pretty cool about all this, because I'm not in it for the prices, nor have I ever been. I find it completely exciting to create all instruments with one and the same synth and see what everyone makes of it. It's not a sporting event, in my books, but a musical celebration of a specific synth. Honor it enough to take advantage of its character and I wouldn't fault what ever comes out of it!

I'm not in it for the prices either. And I enjoy the OSC and the arguments as well, <wink>
Matter of philosophy.

" a musical celebration of a specific synth. " Sounds nice,
but you said you're up for stricter rules and then that your would allow chorus and flanger effects.

So as eraze puts it "Without rules the contest would be pointless. On the other hand it is not easy to say where to draw the line."
I guees we all have our own view of that line

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:46 pm

Hehehe, I like using magical phrases such as "on the other hand" or "to be honest" to allow some contradictions!

Thanks, wag, you know I'm full of it...yes, I'm talking about love!

One Synth Challenge #87: Podolski by U-he (Jasinski Wins!)