Axe-FX vs amp sims

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zerocrossing wrote:
egbert wrote:Try using the cab section of the Amplitube models you like and put the amp sim in front of it. Amplitube is doing more or less the same thing as everyone else with cab modelling/impulses. Plexi and Orange are pretty different characters - and KPA profiles of the two are not similar.
I'm done with this experiment. I had an idea that if Therimonic was super good that it might let me get rid of the Kemper to make room for some modular synth gear, but even if it was as good, which I don't think it is, or even close, by the time I got it and nadIR running at high quality I was already up around 30% total CPU use in Live. Considering I also run some effects pre-preamp and post cab, that's already way too much.

I wasn't really commenting that the Plexi and Orange were similar in any way. I was putting the Therimonic Plexi up against a number of different Plexi profiles on the Kemper and the Orange comment was just me mentioning my favorite Amplitube models as a way of voicing my opinion that I still think Amplitube is a good product. I don't like all the models, but I'm not sure why there's such backlash against it.
Different Thermionik amp models take different amounts of cpu. The highest is the Psycho A. To take down the cpu on any model just switch off the presence and/or depth option.

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Yeah, if an amp has "Depth" parameter, that seems to guzzle the most CPU. Obviously some intense modelling going on.

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zerocrossing wrote: Why is there so much anti Amplitube sentiment these days?
Don't know about other people but I have never liked amplitube. I got the cheap Amplitube 2 to Amplitube 3 deal back in the day.. spent something like 50 euros and I regret it to this day.

There's just something wrong with it to my ears. It's thin and weak.. heck even running it completely vanilla, without the amp or cabinet, just so I can use the pedals, seems to degrade the audio signal going through. I wish I'd like it.. would be an awesome collection of tone in a good package, but I don't. I think it's the worst sounding amp sim on the market and has always been that way.

It always baffles me when people seem to like it. Obviously it comes down to taste but still.. having played and recorded quite a diverse string of various amps in my life it always surprises me when people who have equal or greater experience with real amps praise it.. then again I've met people who sold their 1176 Rev E racks when the UAD-1 hit the streets, swearing by the emulation. :shrug:
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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EvilDragon wrote:I must say I very much dislike the way IR browsing is done in NadIR, this is better in Recabinet 5.
Absolutely agree with you. The IR browsing is very tedious in NadIR if you do a lot of switching. I usually stick to a few select impulses that I seem to like and then save Reaper presets of NadIR for quick recall.

Still, even with the terrible browsing experience, the sound quality is just so far superior in my opinion that it's worth the tradeoff.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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zerocrossing wrote::shrug: Maybe I'm too dumb to figure out the whole impulse thing, but after trying Therimonic Plexi with the free Redwirez 1960a cab in Recabinet and NadIR... I don't get it. I prefer the sound of my Orange Amplitube simulations by a lot, and I still don't think the AxeFX/Kemper users have any reason to ditch their hardware any time soon. Aside from some great ultra high gain stuff that Therimonic seemed to do well, I feel any sort of low-mid gain types of sounds were not up to par.
.. and this is the kind of thing that reminds me that all of this must surely be very subjective. You just described exactly the opposite of my findings.

The low-gain to mid-gain tones (both completely clean AND crunch like tones) is where Thermionic excels and where Amplitube falls seriously SERIOUSLY flat. What you just wrote is almost mind boggling to me. :)

I wonder if there is some kind of connection with the guitar + High impedance instrument input combined with IK Amplitube that either works or doesn't work.

Then again, I've tried amplitube on a lot of input setups. I have a very cheap sound card at home (Focusrite Scarlett 18i8) and a fairly high-end setup at work (Prism Orpheus + numerous preamp options, Orpheus built in Hi-z input, SSL, Neve 1073 wannabe 500 series thing, etc). All of my options give the same feeling of Amplitube. There's just something seriously wrong with it. It's especially easy to hear in the 1.5 to 3kHz region.. where the "bite" of the guitar should be. It's just all wrong. Very fizzy and nasty in a bad way.. the whole signal is just weak, fizzy and artificial to my ears.

But yeah, each to their own. I'm also one of those weird people who was able to get really good sounding tones (again, mainly clean and crunch tones.. I'm not much into high-gain stuff) out of Positive Grid's BIAS amp.. though it took quite a bit of careful internal gain chaining and tweaking. Never the less, I was very happy with the tones I managed to get out of it and think that it gets a way too negative review sound wise here and on some other websites. The software itself is way too buggy and clunky to ever consider purchasing though.. and the company seems very questionable in their programming abilities.

Anyhow, I'm really happy with what I have available right now. S-Gear 2 + a few Thermionik amps (I only have 2 packs) + RedWirez impulses cover almost everything I need. I've just started to experiment with Reaktor 6 as my main FX and the way Thermionik amps react to the various complex processing that hits it is very encouraging. :)

Cheers!
bManic
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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egbert wrote:Yep - full size phone jack with full amp/cab/FX simulation - there's actually more control over the cabs if you use the editor software. You can create a patch and store it on the unit - 5 memory spots only.
a) They sold out before I got the chance :lol:

b) I guess they have 3 different ones (the chamo being "high gain" ) which isn't really what I want anyways.

Anyways, thanks for the info!

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What kind of control over the cabs is offered in the Yamaha? The software doesn't allow you to install and use your own IRs, does it?

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bmanic wrote:
zerocrossing wrote::shrug: Maybe I'm too dumb to figure out the whole impulse thing, but after trying Therimonic Plexi with the free Redwirez 1960a cab in Recabinet and NadIR... I don't get it. I prefer the sound of my Orange Amplitube simulations by a lot, and I still don't think the AxeFX/Kemper users have any reason to ditch their hardware any time soon. Aside from some great ultra high gain stuff that Therimonic seemed to do well, I feel any sort of low-mid gain types of sounds were not up to par.
.. and this is the kind of thing that reminds me that all of this must surely be very subjective. You just described exactly the opposite of my findings.

The low-gain to mid-gain tones (both completely clean AND crunch like tones) is where Thermionic excels and where Amplitube falls seriously SERIOUSLY flat. What you just wrote is almost mind boggling to me. :)

I wonder if there is some kind of connection with the guitar + High impedance instrument input combined with IK Amplitube that either works or doesn't work.

...<snip>...

Anyhow, I'm really happy with what I have available right now. S-Gear 2 + a few Thermionik amps (I only have 2 packs) + RedWirez impulses cover almost everything I need. I've just started to experiment with Reaktor 6 as my main FX and the way Thermionik amps react to the various complex processing that hits it is very encouraging. :)

Cheers!
bManic
First, awww man it's like a late 2000s KVR amp modeling posters reunion in here

Second, I'm very impressed with S-Gear 2, the amp modeling going on there is some advanced sounding stuff and it is very easy to get extremely high quality sounds out of. Only fault in that software is that there isn't more to it - I get the minimalist approach but there are some operational limitations with such a limited field. Though fewer, perhaps, than you'd think - the way the dev does things seems to be aimed at absolute bang for your buck per-module.

Third, Amplitube 2 ----> Amplitube 4, I do think best results come from having a really great instrument input. My best results come from this StompIO (going to be sad when even the ASIO driver won't work anymore), have had good results also from StealthPedal and Rig Kontrol 3. From audio interfaces not designed for instruments I have had mixed results (and from really cheap entry level hardware I've had discouraging results). Not to suggest, though, that your results are due to faulty gear - personal preference and how well we intuitively click with the workflow of a program matters a lot in our feelings about it over time I reckon.


edit: Fourth I need to try Thermionik. Who programs those? Is GuitarAmpModeling still around?

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bmanic wrote:a few Thermionik amps (I only have 2 packs)
Which packs do you have? I have Modern Classics I and am thinking of getting Sonic Empire I and Vintage Legends I.

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bharris22 wrote:What kind of control over the cabs is offered in the Yamaha? The software doesn't allow you to install and use your own IRs, does it?
You can with the head. I can't find the viddy but you can load your own IR's. I don't know about the smaller "all in one" unit.

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bharris22 wrote:What kind of control over the cabs is offered in the Yamaha? The software doesn't allow you to install and use your own IRs, does it?
Nope. The cabs were revised when the firmware was updated. I haven't messed with the editor in a good while but I had an idea that there were some choices in there in the cab emulation area in the V2 editor.

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bmanic wrote:
zerocrossing wrote::shrug: Maybe I'm too dumb to figure out the whole impulse thing, but after trying Therimonic Plexi with the free Redwirez 1960a cab in Recabinet and NadIR... I don't get it. I prefer the sound of my Orange Amplitube simulations by a lot, and I still don't think the AxeFX/Kemper users have any reason to ditch their hardware any time soon. Aside from some great ultra high gain stuff that Therimonic seemed to do well, I feel any sort of low-mid gain types of sounds were not up to par.
.. and this is the kind of thing that reminds me that all of this must surely be very subjective. You just described exactly the opposite of my findings.

The low-gain to mid-gain tones (both completely clean AND crunch like tones) is where Thermionic excels and where Amplitube falls seriously SERIOUSLY flat. What you just wrote is almost mind boggling to me. :)

I wonder if there is some kind of connection with the guitar + High impedance instrument input combined with IK Amplitube that either works or doesn't work.

Then again, I've tried amplitube on a lot of input setups. I have a very cheap sound card at home (Focusrite Scarlett 18i8) and a fairly high-end setup at work (Prism Orpheus + numerous preamp options, Orpheus built in Hi-z input, SSL, Neve 1073 wannabe 500 series thing, etc). All of my options give the same feeling of Amplitube. There's just something seriously wrong with it. It's especially easy to hear in the 1.5 to 3kHz region.. where the "bite" of the guitar should be. It's just all wrong. Very fizzy and nasty in a bad way.. the whole signal is just weak, fizzy and artificial to my ears.

But yeah, each to their own. I'm also one of those weird people who was able to get really good sounding tones (again, mainly clean and crunch tones.. I'm not much into high-gain stuff) out of Positive Grid's BIAS amp.. though it took quite a bit of careful internal gain chaining and tweaking. Never the less, I was very happy with the tones I managed to get out of it and think that it gets a way too negative review sound wise here and on some other websites. The software itself is way too buggy and clunky to ever consider purchasing though.. and the company seems very questionable in their programming abilities.

Anyhow, I'm really happy with what I have available right now. S-Gear 2 + a few Thermionik amps (I only have 2 packs) + RedWirez impulses cover almost everything I need. I've just started to experiment with Reaktor 6 as my main FX and the way Thermionik amps react to the various complex processing that hits it is very encouraging. :)

Cheers!
bManic
Well, I was going directly into an XITE-1 form the Kemper, but I was switching to an input from a Behringer ADA8200 for the software. I'll try it another way, but I can't imagine there being that much of a difference.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IudW6dSQiPg

There is no substitute for being able to play.

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*crickets*

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