Do you ever think compressors, suck?

[jens]

No, it's quite understandable - I most probably would have assumed the same... when I registered at Gearslutz, "jens" was already taken, so I had to use "Jens L." instead - so maybe he's "jens" over there too...

[magicmusic]

Magicmusic, you are really killing the thread with your clueless nonsense, your lack of knowledge and skills and your terrible English*. There is no point in arguing this with someone like you.
Adios thread.
*and I think this is the first time I ever say something like this - I normally applaud everyone for trying to communicate in a language that is not the own native one - but if it goes together will ignorance, lack of knowledge and so forth...

Your post is offtopic because it have no Facts. its only reason is a bash against me personal. kvr forum did not delete your Post, so i need post more Facts, that i am right. Be sure, i have enough Facts that what i write is true. you can read in wiki too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limiter

Limiting is a type of dynamic range compression....
Bass instrument amplifiers and power amplifiers are more commonly equipped with limiter circuitry to prevent overloading the power amplifier and to protect speakers.
Mastering engineers often use limiting combined with make-up gain to increase the perceived loudness of an audio recording during the audio mastering process.

And what you write, 3 db is nothing is total wrong. 3 db can good hear, because it is 50% louder. It help nothing when you tell i am wrong. the true depend not from your personal opinion without Arguments and Facts

[jens]

You see - you do not even realize that this wiki-quote has got NOTHING to do with what we talked about in this thread.

And neither did you comprehend AT ALL what I meant when I wrote 3dB is nothing. Basically it comes down to this: you simply have no clue what this thread is about.

[camsr]

And for the record limiting with 3dB gain does not raise the average RMS level 3dB unless maybe hard clipping.

[magicmusic]

You see - you do not even realize that this wiki-quote has got NOTHING to do with what we talked about in this thread.

And neither did you comprehend AT ALL what I meant when I wrote 3dB is nothing. Basically it comes down to this: you simply have no clue what this thread is about.

wy do post same again ?. please read intro post. The thread creater have ask

I think there could be a more expressive dynamics control device!

so this is Fact that he mean not only compressors. and wiki show that Limiter is a form of compressor. but because of of his thread ask, also a dynamic eq or transient enhancer can suggest to him(as a more expressive dynamic control device) to try out.

And for the record limiting with 3dB gain does not raise the average RMS level 3dB unless maybe hard clipping.

maybe, but with limiters you can hear that it go much louder and your comment 3db is nothing is still wrong, because you can hear it good. and so it is not nothing.

I hope you want not do endless discussion and write your wrong opinion again and again.

[jens]

your comment 3db is nothing is still wrong, because you can hear it good. and so it is not nothing.

I was not talking about brickwall limiting.

Nobody besides you was talking about brickwall limiting.

You do not understand that this thread is not about brickwall limiting.

Even after being told multiple times, you keep ignoring that this thread is not about brickwall limiting.

Also, you keep ignoring the differences between brickwall-limiting and compression.

[camsr]

I'm not the thread police

[magicmusic]

your comment 3db is nothing is still wrong, because you can hear it good. and so it is not nothing.

I was not talking about brickwall limiting.

Nobody besides you was talking about brickwall limiting.

You do not understand that this thread is not about brickwall limiting.

Even after being told multiple times, you keep ignoring that this thread is not about brickwall limiting.

Also, you keep ignoring the differences between brickwall-limiting and compression.

only Limter have a setting with value db. compressors do use ratio 1.5. when set compressor to Ratio 1.5 this is too not nothing. My first post is maybe not clear enough, i see i forget t in limiter. but there stand about limiter and compressor.

I did not find any compressor or Limier that sound good when do more than 3db compress or 1.5 . its the reason of how much. if you do more, can hear. My guess is for more can only use a basedrum or snare Tom compressor. but the overall compressor should not be more as 1.5 or 3d set. this give better loudness and can not hear

so i assume that all know that a parameter of 3 db is the limiter setting and the Ratio of 1.5 is compressor setting. And both is more than nothing. and in wiki stand clear that limter is a special type of compressor. compressor is upper class .can see in classes in compare to upper class car. and limiter, brickwall limiter, soft knee compressor, transient enhancer, dynamic EQ, in a car subclass is van, sports car, rover. maybe you understand better then.

I do nothing ignore. you ignore again and again that this thread also want a look to other dynamic device.please please read the first post of this thread if you dont trust me. here stand

I think there could be a more expressive dynamics control device!

so it seem clear that not only subclass compressor is talk. look as this thread is open for all compressors technology

[pixel85]

I wanted to wrote smtg but there's no words that can heal naughty lack of knowledge.
Last pages of this topic should be in some 'offtopic jokes for audio engineers' part of forum because what we can read here is nothing more than most ridiculous nonsense statements about compression/limiting/brickwall limiting and even more ignorance.

Books! Books! Pray for books! Only books can heal lack of knowledge! Not f** shitpedia!

[magicmusic]

and now you want say that what in wikipedia stand is wrong ?. oh my god, the world is really lost all full of bad knowledge and only pixel85 and jens know the true, but they can not tell Facts.
here can see what diffrence between limiter compressor is. it is only in settings. over 10:1 ratio, it is called as limiter. or is this too wrong ?
http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/te ... s_en.shtml

For the compressor to work as a limiter, we will adjust the compression ratio to 20:1.

and here in wikipedia but other article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

A limiter is a compressor with a high ratio and, generally, a fast attack time. Limiters are common as a safety device in live sound and broadcast applications to prevent sudden volume peaks from occurring. Limiters are also used as protective features in some components of sound reinforcement systems (e.g., powered mixing boards and power amplifiers) and in some bass amps, to prevent unwanted distortion and/or speaker damage.

Now its upto you to bring the facts that Limiter and compressor is in general the same only diffrence is Ratio value

[Uncle E]

and now you want say that what in wikipedia stand is wrong ?. oh my god, the world is really lost all full of bad knowledge and only pixel85 and jens know the true, but they can not tell Facts.
here can see what diffrence between limiter compressor is. it is only in settings. over 10:1 ratio, it is called as limiter. or is this too wrong ?

There is a way for you all to be correct. 3dB of GR on the main buss is drastic but that same amount on individual instruments can be hardly noticeable, particularly on things with very loud, fast transients like drums.

[pixel85]

and now you want say that what in wikipedia stand is wrong ?. oh my god, the world is really lost all full of bad knowledge and only pixel85 and jens know the true, but they can not tell Facts.
here can see what diffrence between limiter compressor is. it is only in settings. over 10:1 ratio, it is called as limiter. or is this too wrong ?
http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/te ... s_en.shtml

For the compressor to work as a limiter, we will adjust the compression ratio to 20:1.

and here in wikipedia but other article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

A limiter is a compressor with a high ratio and, generally, a fast attack time. Limiters are common as a safety device in live sound and broadcast applications to prevent sudden volume peaks from occurring. Limiters are also used as protective features in some components of sound reinforcement systems (e.g., powered mixing boards and power amplifiers) and in some bass amps, to prevent unwanted distortion and/or speaker damage.

Now its upto you to bring the facts that Limiter and compressor is in general the same only diffrence is Ratio value

ffs man, you're talking about LoudMax - its brickwall limiter not a limiter per se. learn what is the diference between those two. you want to be smart by quoting wikipedia but you're still wrong because your basic topic was about brickwall limiter. let me tell you this again stowly: B R I C K W A L L limiter aka MAXIMISER.
Go and learn what it is, it's even on LoudMax website: 'LoudMax is a Look-Ahead Brickwall Loudness Maximizer Plugin' - can you spell it and think just for a second or two? Or you will simply quote wikipedia about flangers this time?

EOT for me

[jens]

Now its upto you to bring the facts that Limiter and compressor is in general the same only diffrence is Ratio value

Here's some good folks who explained what you obvioulsy have severe problems to understand, more brilliantly that I ever could:

What’s the difference between a compressor and a limiter ?

The answer is that a limiter is just a compressor with a very high ratio. Typically they have very fast attack and release times, too. (If you’re not quite clear on exactly what a compressor is or how best to use one, read my post on Using Compression first.)

So, limiting is a pretty aggressive form of compression. This means that if you push something too hard into a limiter, it will very quickly have a negative effect on the audio – you’ll hear it go blunt and lifeless, with a loss of excitement and impact, or even distort. On the other hand, used lightly on peaky material, it can be a very transparent way of reducing the dynamic range.

http://productionadvice.co.uk/compression-punchbag/

OK, you understand limiting is compression, also think of limiting as a hatchet and compression as a scalpel (sorry for the political comparison).

I will explain compressors to make sure it's clear how the comp works in general. Let's say you have a 2:1 ratio and a -18 threshold...that means for every 2 decibels over -18 the track only raises 1. 4 over and it only raises 2. If it's 3:1, for every 3 decibels over the track only raises 1 and so on. That is why over 10:1 is considered limiting because if the threshold is -18 the track would have to be really loud to get much louder than -16 or so. So that explains ratios better in case that is confusing you.

You are confused by why limiting is limiting and compression is compression, that is the question. This is hard but I'm going to make a stab at it. We'll take kick drum for this example because that is what you brought up. When a human plays a kick drum, not all of the hits are going to be the exact same volume from one another, so if we did not have compression we would have to automate the volume so certain kicks wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. Compression helps the hits be within a reasonable dynamic range of each other so we don't have to do that. So compression is helping to control the volume range without taking all of the human element out of the mix. So the kick is staying between, -4 and -6 or so. Now let's put a limiter in instead, now every kick is -4 db exactly because that's what a limiter does. You set the threshold and nothing get's past it. So now we have just turned our great human kick track into an 808 that every kick drum essentially sounds the same and you just drained 1 pint of blood from your mix. This paragragh deals nothing with the fact that compression can also be used to add punch to the bass drum for the sake of being easier to understand.

Here is a .wav file with the 1st part just being compressed and the second part being limited. They are approximately the same volume but notice how the limited bass drum sounds like hitting large vegetables against the table and how the punch has been drained and now it's almost all click. And now you almost have to gate the snare to get it out of the track...I hate gating.

This isn't to say that a limiter can't be used on kick to bring up the volume a touch, if you need 2 more db of kick and it's already peaking by all means use the limiter. But if you need punch and to manage the dynamic range you need to use compression. Usually a 3-4:1 ratio works fine, then set the threshold where it is grabbing it to have up to about 6 db of reduction but usually less hopefully.


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachm ... xample.wav

Limiting is a little different than standard compression. When compressing, the threshold is set so that the compressor is operating most of the duration of the track. Compression usually entails lower ratios, and slower attack so that transients are not dulled down. When limiting, the threshold is set high enough so that the limiter only comes on intermittently to bring down the occasional peaks -- without affecting the rest of the track. For limiting, ratios are usually set high, and the attack MUST be fast enough to catch the transients. Many compressors do not have fast enough attack times to be used effectively as limiters.

So even though compressing (leveling) and limiting can both often be accomplished with the same tool, they actually have different goals, and they sound different. That's why sometimes tracks are first limited, then compressed (or vice versa).

Because they do different jobs, my favorite limiter is not the same box as my favorite compressor.

Nowadays when people talk about limiters they often mean brickwall limiters, which means that no transient slips through as opposite to compressors which allows transients to pass untreated as long as the attack-time isn't super short.

So if you use a compressor with no super short attack time it doesn't actually change the dynamic-range only the envelop-curve! Meaning it's not always the right tool to make something louder. Brickwall-limiters always scaling-down the dynamic range hence their popularity in the loudness-war.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... iting.html

[magicmusic]

good when you EOT. you write totally wrong. or is this wrong too. Brickwall limiting is compression with very high ratio.brickwall limiter is only higher compression ratio (over the threshold)as limiter. read here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

Compression and limiting are identical in process but different in degree and perceived effect. A limiter is a compressor with a high ratio and, generally, a fast attack time. Compression with ratio of 10:1 or more is generally considered limiting.[17]
Brick wall limiting has a very high ratio and a very fast attack time. Ideally, this ensures that an audio signal never exceeds the amplitude of the threshold. Ratios of 20:1 all the way up to ∞:1 are considered 'brick wall'.[17] The sonic results of more than momentary and infrequent hard/brick-wall limiting are harsh and unpleasant, thus it is more common as a safety device in live sound and broadcast applications.

[jens]

I do nothing ignore. you ignore again and again that this thread also want a look to other dynamic device.please please read the first post of this thread if you dont trust me. here stand

Way to get rid of every little bit of logic that might have been left here...

The "dynamic device" you suggested here (a certain brickwall limiter) sounds like crap the way you try to (ab)use it and you even admitted this yourself and originally that was even the whole point you tried to make >>compressors generally sound bad at a gain-reduction of more than 3dB<<
- and now all of a sudden you say that you keep and keep and keep talking about brickwall-limiting - which (you aside) nobody here in the context of this thread seems to have the slightest interest in - because you want to suggest an "other dynamic device"?

What the f**k???

What is your f**king point, aside from showing your lack of knowledge and mixing skills, your ignorance and stupidity (to the point where it's getting bizarre) and your severe inability to follow/excute any kind of at least halfway coherent argumentation?