Incompatible with OSX 10.10?

[LYTZ]

Enhanced workaround idea in addition to my post before:

I thought about the "minimize to dock workaround" you mentioned earlier.
If there would be a keycommand like "minimize all open/floating windows to dock"
and a second one "close all docked windows" that would be pretty convienient in any case
even without the white-window problem

Not only as a workaround in the Yosemite situation, but also would reduce a hell of a lot of
clicking, because in MuLab we have to deal with multiple floating window pretty often.

Maybe worth a consideration.

Best,

tL.

[DHR53]

10.10 works well enough if you do a clean install... However it does not work well if it was upgraded. I recently switched to Yosemite and started from scratch and MuLab has been working with my limited plugins. But I have had some freezes that left a number of hours worth of work gone in a poof. I guess it's a matter of what you can tolerate on OSX.

[LYTZ]

Well,well...

Now thats all good and so on, but still the fact remains, that Mutools and eXT have severe PlugIn Gui problems on some peoples machines.

Especially given that theese DAWs are not that popular like others, hence not so much feedback will come back like there would come back with other DAWs, you can bet that if this issue would be Logic X or ProTools there would be a sh*tstorm of on the forums with 1000 posts in no time.

And then think about what would happen if the devs tell them then:
"Well works good enough if you do a clean Operating System install and use limited plugins....."

Lol...

tL.

[DHR53]

If you want to say the program is "not good" because of the OSX version go ahead... But that was not my intention by the previous post. I've always assumed the Windows version has less issues but that's more a problem with small developers and Apple's OS strategy. You have to use what works in the end... .02

[LYTZ]

Well, actually I did try to help here and suggested some solutions and
I was not ranting about "how bad the software is" or was I?

I really dont get it why everybody here is so touchy regarding problems of muTools.
Theese *are* problems, so get organised and don't dream them away.
Has nothing to do with, nor did I ever say "the software suuucks"

But this stuff is actually also the main reason why I stayed away from here for quite a long time.
Pisses me off.

So bye bye again...

tL.

[mutools]

My guess is that its very very likely a triangular thing between Yosemite, the Host and Plugins based on a specific Juce Framework.

Yes i agree with this guess. The only thing that MuLab is doing 'wrong' is to still use the officially supported (but deprecated) Carbon API. I'm quite sure EXT is in the same situation hence similar symptoms. I know i'll have to rewrite the MU's OSX layer in order to stay compatible with OSX, as Apple will abandon Carbon anyway sooner or later. I'm evaluating that task. Anyway, as Carbon still is an officially supported API, it should work!

When I rechecked Mulab yesterday I had even a crash after some white window plugin thing. There are some lines regarding Juce in it. I will send over that crash report, maybe there is something in there that hints you in the right direction.

Thanks. Indeed the crash is inside the VST plugin, after calling several JUCE functions.

(AddOn: The Ableton guys came up with this statement,
which I can proove wrong in no time:)

Are there any known issues with OS X 10.10?

Certain 32-bit VST plug-ins that make use of outdated versions of the JUCE framework seem to have drawing problems with the plug-in GUI.

The symptoms are: completely empty plug-in windows, misaligned UI elements, not being able to close the plug-in window.

If you experience such issues, we recommend using the 64-bit versions of these plug-ins, if available, and contacting the plug-in developer for additional information.

Nonsense. Recently released 64 bit stuff is doing the same shite.

Interesting! Doesn't this prove that it essentially is not a MuLab issue?!
Because the same symptoms can also occur in Live, right?
Not that this would mean i'm not interested anymore, it IS a very annoying problem, for both user as developer.
Wish Jules could step in into this and check that it's not JUCE related.

[jue]

Hello,

Wanted to test Numerology and some more plugins with the last build from today but still the white area after closing them.

Is there a solution beside the workaround?

best
jue

[mutools]

No, not yet. It's unclear what causes the problem. I've triple-checked the relevant mutools code (spent many many hours with that) and can't find anything wrong. I suspect the problem to be outside the mu code. I'll keep on looking for bypass solutions. If anyone can add any new info to this odd puzzle, pls let me know. One thing is sure: OSX is a very volatile platform that regularly breaks compatibilities with itself. Whether that is by accident or by intention is an open question.

[jue]

LYTZ wrote
MuLab is *very* extreme here with that white box sh*t, so that I basically stopped using it since the 10.10 update as it's too much trouble to go through.

I also stoped to try it because of this problem and some others.
Wanted to make some examples for Numerology users how to connect Numerology within Mulab but the anoing demo noise that comes short after pasting Numerology to a synth as MIDI out, the white box and a support that does not read the mail and comes with a standart answer that does not help as stated in the mail.
Now my time goes into another product.

No 64 bit version on OSX for a long time by the way?
Expected from the free version that it would be possible to use one track with Numerology and a synth and a second track to record the results, but no only noise?

You could do much more with a free Cubase LE version!

best
jue

[mutools]

Wanted to make some examples for Numerology users how to connect Numerology within Mulab but the anoing demo noise that comes short after pasting Numerology to a synth as MIDI out

The demo noise must have another reason as i wrote you yesterday.
The demo limits are listed here: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/ ... sions.html

a support that does not read the mail

1) I already replied to you yesterday, soon after your mail came in, maybe check your spam folder. 2) It's not guaranteed that mails are answered 'immediately'. There are many parallel activities here and the available time must be spread. That said you received a reply already 2 hours after your mail! Thank you for your appreciation.

[antoniaz]

I would like to recall again the importance of such issue ("white windows" left open for some plugins on Mac platform), especially for people like me that work on Mac and are seriously considering to migrate to MuLab as main DAW having seen all the recent huge improvements !

I tested #181 popular VST plugins (32-bit) on my Mac with OS X 10.11.4 and MuLab Free 7.0.36.
#32 of them have shown the problem. Among them, unfortunately, there are some that are very good:
- UVI Workstation (I have many AcousticSamples libraries for it)
- all FX from ValhallaDSP
- SSD Sampler (Steven Slate)
- Kuassa Cerberus Bass Amp
- all FX from D16 Group
- Klanghelm MJUC
- TSE X50 V2
- TDR Nova and VOS SlickEQ
- Overloud Mark Studio

I hope such analysis can be helpful in understanding the root cause (that by the way seems related to UI APIs and 32 vs 64 bit) and to push towards a solution.

[antoniaz]

I have found some hints in helping to solve the issue of "white windows" on the following sites:

https://forum.juce.com/t/white-window-o ... ac/16560/4

http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topi ... -slick-eq/

I really hope it can help.

[Zexila]

on my Mac with OS X 10.11.4 and MuLab Free 7.0.36.

Just suggestion and guess question, but is there particular reason to be on last version of OS X?

As I understand there's no issues of this kind on 10.9 and that's what everyone is supporting these days too, so yeah, why not staying on that version for a little while?

Awesome thing with MuLab is legacy support, but I understand that your other software is not that flexible, so you can't really use 10.6.8 like myself, but 10.9.5 is kinda golden middle right now, everything should work flawlessly there and as I'm seeing that's like lowest supported version on many stuff and guess it will be for a little while, kinda Windows 7 on OS X side

[antoniaz]

Everybody has his/her own preferences and needs. Personally, I prefer to stay always updated with OS X versions in general, in order to benefit from bug fixes and enhancements. In particolar, I may not accept to stop OS updates only for the temporary limitations of a single app. I'm pretty confident that Mutools will overcome such VST incompatibilities in the near future by releasing a 64-bit Mac app or another solution. Mulab has a great potential and can play a key role also on Mac / OS X, but must try to cope with OS X evolution (while I'm a software guy and I may understand well how difficult can be for small developers).

[Zexila]

Everybody has his/her own preferences and needs.

Sure, we are talking strictly audio here.

Personally, I prefer to stay always updated with OS X versions in general, in order to benefit from bug fixes and enhancements.

Sure, for non audio stuff.

In particolar, I may not accept to stop OS updates only for the temporary limitations of a single app.

In this case ,that single app is your DAW which is most important thing here, again we are talking audio here.

I'm pretty confident that Mutools will overcome such VST incompatibilities in the near future by releasing a 64-bit Mac app or another solution

Well, you are the one that will get disappointed waiting for this, instead of actually using to the fullest potential right now.

Mulab has a great potential and can play a key role also on Mac / OS X, but must try to cope with OS X evolution (while I'm a software guy and I may understand well how difficult can be for small developers).

It have and can, but it wont and isn't, so yeah, better get with the program, no offence, I'm aware of the mentality of some OS X users like you that choose incompatibility just for the sake of updating to newest OS X which brings incompatibles and almost nothing new for music making, dual booting is always an option.