A VST Sampler like Roland's Variphrase Models

[pause6969]

Hi, is there any VST instrument or sampler which can do what you can do with Roland's variphrase instruments like VP-9000 or V-Synth GT?

I've read that Kontakt and Alchemy can give similar results but I was wondering if there was a dedicated sampler/synth so I could get results without getting under the hood.

Thanks!

[cocoazenith]

I've been interestd in the same topic for some time now and the all leads point to an unfortunate NO, not really.

You're better of getting the hardware.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... h-yet.html

[olepro]

I would take a look at image-line Harmor

[Xcarnation]

The search is over Serato Sample will do the job if not even better !

[Burkeyboarder]

The search is over Serato Sample will do the job if not even better !

I cannot confirm, that Serato Sample can do the same like Variphrase in the V-Synth GT.

Although you can play a sample on the MIDI keyboard chromatically and polyphonically, it always retriggers, if I press another key.

The typical polyphonic and legato-play of a sample in VariPhrase, where the pitch changes, but the sample doesn't retrigger - this is not possible with Serato Sample.

At least I could not find out how to do it. There is not button "legato" or "retrigger". Only a button for MIDI-keyboard.

Also, the time stretching is not formant compensated, for using vocal samples. In variphrase you could specify if your sample is a vocal sample.

Without formant compensation you get the typical 🐿 -effect. Which is not very nice.

That means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.

Now i check out Kontakt 6 "Tone machine". They are supposed to have a similar function and I already saw it in action. But the price is a little higher than Serato Sample.

But I need to do it.

Some thoughts on that?

[Burkeyboarder]

I would take a look at image-line Harmor

This VST sounds and looks really nice. Vocal resynthesis is the basic theory of VariPhrase.

[zerocrossing]

People make the VariPhrase technology to be some sort of magic, but I've always thought it sounded like a solid first try that needed improvement. Way back in the day I thought VirSyn's Poseidon was better at resynthesis and now other plugins like Icarus seem to be even better.

[olepro]

I would take a look at image-line Harmor

This VST sounds and looks really nice. Vocal resynthesis is the basic theory of VariPhrase.

You have full control over formants in harmor, so no chipmunk effect
it's a crazy synth!

[EvilDragon]

That means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.

Just FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...

In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.

[bluesawsq]

That means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.

Just FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...

In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.

Interesting detail about the algorithms used in V-synth and Kontakt. Thanks! Haven't seen those details publicly mentioned anywhere during all these years.
However, I have found the Time Machine Pro in Kontakt to be the best for Variphrase type sounds.
Use 'HQ mode' with 'Keep Formants' and 'Legato' enabled.
Time Machine 2 produces too much chipmunks.

[Burkeyboarder]

That means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.

Just FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...

In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.

How do you know that VariPhrase is not using additive resynthesis, like Image-Line Harmor? Where is proofed, that Roland uses that Pitch Synchronous Overlap and Add Algorithm?

Vocal Additive Resynthesis on Harmor gives the same sounding results as my V-Synth GT, right here beside me.

And according your statements about Kontakt Time Machine and Tone Machine, I wouldn’t bet your are right. Because I tested it and the Tone Machine of Kontakt 6 gives me the same sounding results like my V-Synth GT right here beside me.

Look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtEoB9SqUoI

[Burkeyboarder]

I would take a look at image-line Harmor

This VST sounds and looks really nice. Vocal resynthesis is the basic theory of VariPhrase.

You have full control over formants in harmor, so no chipmunk effect
it's a crazy synth!

I purchased Harmor on hot deal for half the price and it’s really a great synth. I like the additive synthesis approach on vocal phrase samples.

It really sounds very close to my V-Synth GT, right here beside me.

[EvilDragon]

I know a thing or two about Kontakt's codebase. Tone Machine is using granular. TM2 is using PSOLA. I also have it confirmed with NI.

I think even Kontakt's manual mentions Tone Machine using granular synthesis. Look it up.

As for Variphase, https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... stcount=16


That said, PSOLA could also be considered a form of granular processing, in a way...

[DrFolder]

Maybe look at Native Instruments Form.

[surreal]

intresting topic!