Synclavier Soft synth/emulators?

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Glyn Darby wrote:Eddie Jobson was a great user of the synclavier, heres some info. http://www.eddiejobson.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=52&t=52
Cool Music ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNlchN3Ej4Y

Eddie's album " Theme of secrets " was recorded on the Synclavier music computer ...( ca 1985 )
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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blacktomcat666 wrote:There are still some private projects running, but none of them are finished yet. Maybe they are not comparable to the official plugin, but they have a slight different flavor / add extended features.

Max / MSP emulation:

http://www.sequencer.de/blog/synclavier ... tion/25963

AudioTerm II:

https://soundcloud.com/cyclotron2010/se ... evelopment

At least AudioTerm II is planned to be freeware.
I think actually I'm more interested in this than the Arturia Synclavier - and not just because of the price. Could be the presets aren't to my liking but what I've heard so far from the Arturia effort just doesn't rock my boat.
Pastoral, Kosmiche, Ambient Music https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/

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Ingonator wrote:Tony Banks from Genesis used it for several tracks in the 80s and also played it Live.
Yep, as can be seen in the video from the Wembley '87 gig, Synclavier in the rig, alongside Arp Quadra, and Emulator II

His playing it during Los Endos in that show also, so it must have taken over the task of some older gear he didn't feel like using anymore.

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wagtunes wrote:
Not even in the same league
It would be cool to have the actual samples from a Synclavier, and use them in Falcon :)

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ChamomileShark wrote:I think actually I'm more interested in this than the Arturia Synclavier - and not just because of the price. Could be the presets aren't to my liking but what I've heard so far from the Arturia effort just doesn't rock my boat.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I don't think Cameron Jones is up to the task :roll: After all, what does he know about the Synclavier? :borg:
Fernando (FMR)

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Examigan wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Not even in the same league
It would be cool to have the actual samples from a Synclavier, and use them in Falcon :)
There have been some sample libraries floating around over the years, although I'm not sure what is currently available. I know that I was somewhat underwhelmed when I finally had a chance to work with a Synclavier in the late 1980's... The orchestral sounds were dry and static and, aside from the obvious technical advantages of the high sample rate, etc., it really didn't sound much better than my Emax.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Synclavier's FM (not the sampling which is outdated and unnecessary today) is what everybody has been hoping for since softsynths came into use many years ago. sample libraries (both of them!) seem to fall short. the Arturia is fantastic but the presets only have a few of the most memorable sounds. the Audio-Term II is what i want! now that sounds like the old blue demo record than Arturia's.

i hope this vst will materialize soon and not be Mac only.

i will be getting the Synclavier V if only to explore the programming and recreation of the old classic sounds.

btw, people often think the DX7 was a better instrument but it was not actually an FM synth. this becomes readily apparent when trying to recreate Synclavier FM sounds on the Yamaha stuff. the same holds true for the opposite too, but that's not the point.

the GDS digital synthesizer and DK Synergy could re create many Synclavier sounds as they used true FM. i would love to see a Synergy VSTi soon.
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

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Synclavier V seems to use "real" FM (opposing to phase modulation) and has additive waveform editing (opposing to just using Sines like in the DX7). That additive editing already offers access to a huge amount of different waveforms that were quite difficult to get from pure FM synthesis (or to be correct: phase modulation synthesis...) like in the DX7. Those combined with FM could deliver results very difficult to get with the Yamaha synths and emulations of those.
Opposing to the real Synclavier the new Arturia Synclavier V also allows additive editing for the Modulator while the real thing only had a Sine there (and only allowed editing of the harmonics for the Carrier).

Two synth that are somehow comparable while not identical in soud and features are Tone2 Nemesis and teh upcoming Tone2 Icarus. Nemesis allows loading waveforms for the Carrier and Modulator from WAV files or creating the from scratch wi tha simple additive like editor. Then with the NeoFM modes you could use real FM opposing to phase modulation (which is included in different mdes too so it could be directly compared...)
Icarus got an additive like waveform ediot too but with a lot more partials/harmonics than in Nemesis and Synclavier V. With teh Osc Morph modes i also offers FM while this is limited to a few waeform for the Modulator (e.g. Sine, Saw, Square). It uses teh NeoFM like in Nemesis so it uses "real" FM too. The reuslt of a loaded wavetable and the curent FM amount setting (with the "Morph" knob) could be also rendered to a new wavetable which then could be used again with different FM settings. Modulation of the Morph knob (in this case the FM amount) is of course possible too (conparable to teh Harmonic enveloeps in teh Synclavier).

Anyway there does not seem to be any proper replacement for the Synclavier V synth engine so far and also ssound wise there seem to be diffeernces in other synths.
With all 12 parts/partials Synclavier V has 24 OPs and 24 envelopes so this should be hard to replicate.

Maybe with the FM and envelope modules in UVI Falcon it could be somehow possible to replicate this while i am not sure if this uses phase modulation instaed of real FM. As it only uses Sines it should not matter in that case but this is another reason why it could not replicate a Synclavier with it's additive waveform programing properly...

Another FM synth with additive like waveform programming is Ableton Operator (at least with later versions). Not sure how far this could come close to a Synclavier and AFAIK Operator uses phase modulation instaed of real FM.
At the end it does not really matter as i got Synclavier V here so at the moment i do not really have to replicate it with other synths. It also does not matter how close it sounds to the real thing a it sounds great on it's own and offers some additions to the real thing.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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I will try to re-program the Phased-Gong on FM8 (4 instances needed). ;)

Basically the patch is a layer of 4 FM stacks ratio 1:3.5, with variations in each layer.
Part 3 and 4 are 1 octave lower. The Carrier is a light sawish wave (6 harmonics or so).

Also a light 2 voice unison is used (called "voice chorus").

Envelopes in the synclavier seem to be linear for attack and light exponential for decay.

Decay and release times are scaled by key number.

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I think that the combination of additive waveform editing (with up to 24 harmonics and phase adjustment for each harmonic, available for both the carrier and modulator), real FM (opposing to phase modulation), multiple layers (up to 12 in Synclavier V and 4 in the real thing) and lots of envelopes (a volume and harmonics = FM amount envelope for each part/partial) that make it difficult to replicate exactly the same sounds in other synths. Besides that there are also some additionak features that make it even more difficult (e.g. Voice Chorus, Stereo/Panning controls/modulation, Portamento, key zones for each part and others). Additionally in Synclavier V you also got the FX section (3 FXs at once).
Last edited by Ingonator on Sun May 29, 2016 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Synclavier seemed to use 8-bit for the FM which could sound a bit "dirty" (same in the emulation). For a more clean sound Synclavier V offers up to 24-bit and a "Noise Floor knob. Usually you get a quite clean sound with Noise Floor off and a bit-depth of setting of 12 or more.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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One feature of the Synclavier (and Synclavier V) i am not fully aware how to use it properly is the "Timbre frame" or adding additional "Time Slices" for teh Partials which could be used for a kind of "wave sequencing" (as someone else called it) instead of using the partials as "simple" layers.
This seems to be another advanced feature of the Synclavier that could make it stand out from other additive/FM synths. Will try to find out how this works. Related parameters seem to be e.g. the "Frame Speed" (main GUI) and "Frame Delay" (advanced editing pages).

The Synclavier V manual should be helpful with that too:
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/s ... 0_0_EN.pdf

UPDATE:
Found this in the manual concerning "Time Slices" (which looks like it could indeed make resulting sounds a lot more complex):
7.3.2 Adding & Deleting TIME SLICE FRAMES
TIME SLICE FRAMES occur along a horizontal Purple timeline located just to the RIGHT of PARTIAL 2.
Just above the Purple timeline is the Zoom window and determines the time range of view. It looks a bit like a ruler. To zoom IN (decrease the viewing range) click/drag DOWN in the window. To zoom OUT (increase the viewing range) click/drag UP in the window. To move forward or back along the timeline, click/drag LEFT or RIGHT in the window.

To Add a TIME SLICE FRAME to your current PARTIAL, simply click anywhere on the horizontal Purple timeline located just to the RIGHT of PARTIAL 2. You will place a small Green circle on the timeline and can drag it to any location along the timeline.
Also notice that under SLICE SETTINGS in the Time Slice box, the FRAME number will display. By clicking on each FRAME you add, the FRAME number will display in the Time Slice box.
Each FRAME you create uses the harmonics of the nearest Frame to the right on the timeline, or defaults to a single SINE WAVE CARRIER (1st Harmonic) and single SINE WAVE MODULATOR (1st Harmonic) if there are NO Frames to the right on the timeline. A total of 50 TIME SLICE FRAMES can be created.
To Delete a TIME SLICE FRAME from your current PARTIAL, click on the FRAME’s Green circle on the horizontal Purple timeline and click the Del box under SLICE SETTINGS. This will remove the FRAME from the timeline.
Last edited by Ingonator on Sun May 29, 2016 9:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Yes, it is a sequencial blending between different harmonics settings.
Fortunately the Beat-It patch does not use this feature.

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Ingonator wrote:One feature of teh Synclavier (and Synclavier V) i am not fully aware how to use it properly is the "Timbre frame" where the partials could be used for a kind of "wave sequencing" (as someone else called it) instead of using the partials as simple" layers. This could be another advanced feature of the Synclavier that could make it stand out from other additive/FM synths. Will try to find out how this works. Related parameters seem to be e.g. the "Frame Speed" (main GUI) and "Frame Delay" (advanced editing pages).
It works like a dynamic wavetable. Each "timbre frame" is a wave, composed of additive components, and the timbres follow each other over time, at user definable intervals and speed, also with user definable crossfading. This allows for a timbre evolution during time, so, the oscillator is not static. This allows, for example, to mimick the timbre variations of acoustic sounds over time (like passing from the attack transients phase to the sustain part). This is indeed very powerful. There are some acoustic piano sounds in the library that make extensive use of this feature.

So, we could think of the Synclavier V as a wavetable synth too (but with up to twelve wavetables simultaneously).
Last edited by fmr on Sun May 29, 2016 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:
Ingonator wrote:One feature of teh Synclavier (and Synclavier V) i am not fully aware how to use it properly is the "Timbre frame" where the partials could be used for a kind of "wave sequencing" (as someone else called it) instead of using the partials as simple" layers. This could be another advanced feature of the Synclavier that could make it stand out from other additive/FM synths. Will try to find out how this works. Related parameters seem to be e.g. the "Frame Speed" (main GUI) and "Frame Delay" (advanced editing pages).
It works like a dynamic wavetable. Each "timbre frame" is a wave, composed of additive components, and the timbres follow each other over time, at user definable intervals and speed, also with user definable crossfading. This allows for a timbre evolution during time, so, the oscillator is not static. This allows, for example, to mimick the timbre variations of acoustic sounds over time (like passing from the attack transients phase to the sustain part). This is indeed very powerful. There are some acoustic piano sounds in the library that make extensive use of this feature.

So, we could think of the Syclavier V as a wavetable synth too (but with up to twelve wavetables simultaneously).
Many thanks for this. :)

The more i explore the features of the Synclavier V (annd the original Synclavier) the more i get the impression that it is both really unique and powerful and that it does not make much sense to search for another synth that could do similar stuff. Also as i already own it as part of V-Collection 5 it makes more sense to explore what Synclavier V is really capable of which seems to be much more than it is obvious from having a first look at it.

Last but not least it also sounds great as it is...
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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