So I Wrote A symphony

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seismic1 wrote:If memory serves, this is the first symphony I have listened to this year. I managed to hear this in one, uninterrupted sitting whilst dealing with mail and performing a couple of software updates. As has already been mentioned, the libraries leave something to be desired, but I found the listening experience to be enjoyable. Congratulations on managing to see it through to the end.

Good work :)
Thanks. Appreciate the comments. Yes, the library sucks. LOL.

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Hello,

I've really enjoyed your writing, there are so many unpredictable ideas, it is never boring :)
I've just listenned to the first movement yet and I love the way the accompaniment melody evolves "below" the main one at the beginning, so much work here, also the way you repeat the main melody with some variations, it never really resolves, there are always some new ideas introduced, it is really enjoyable. Well, it is not an "easy listening" stuff, generally I don't like classical music (I am more into jazz or electronic music) but it was a good surprise.

It is very dense, it is a bit hard to hear everything... For example, I really like the chord at 10:09 (first movement), but there are so many ideas, the listener must really pay attention.

You may write this kind of composition for a smaller ensemble (a violon quatuor + a piano for example) and find a group of real musicians to play it... A symphonic orchestra, well it is impossible but, a small group maybe... :)

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Tchandra wrote:Hello,

I've really enjoyed your writing, there are so many unpredictable ideas, it is never boring :)
I've just listenned to the first movement yet and I love the way the accompaniment melody evolves "below" the main one at the beginning, so much work here, also the way you repeat the main melody with some variations, it never really resolves, there are always some new ideas introduced, it is really enjoyable. Well, it is not an "easy listening" stuff, generally I don't like classical music (I am more into jazz or electronic music) but it was a good surprise.

It is very dense, it is a bit hard to hear everything... For example, I really like the chord at 10:09 (first movement), but there are so many ideas, the listener must really pay attention.

You may write this kind of composition for a smaller ensemble (a violon quatuor + a piano for example) and find a group of real musicians to play it... A symphonic orchestra, well it is impossible but, a small group maybe... :)
Thanks. If I ever win the lottery, I'll hire an orchestra to play this.

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To find a small group of classical musicians is easier than winning the lottery I guess :hihi:

Do you have any recommendation for classical music like this one, written nowadays I mean ?
It seems you've got on one hand contemporary composers who write some very abstract things, or on another hand, light classical composers who write film scores and so on (but this is just an assumption). I generally don't like famous composers from the past centuries, but I would be interested to listen to some melodic music like this, with a moderne influence and interesting harmonies.

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Steven,

I listened again to your First and as it is typical in classical music I liked more.
Tchandra wrote:To find a small group of classical musicians is easier than winning the lottery I guess :hihi:

Do you have any recommendation for classical music like this one, written nowadays I mean ?
It seems you've got on one hand contemporary composers who write some very abstract things, or on another hand, light classical composers who write film scores and so on (but this is just an assumption). I generally don't like famous composers from the past centuries, but I would be interested to listen to some melodic music like this, with a moderne influence and interesting harmonies.
Personally I would like to see a romantic classical music revival with original or even modern harmonies.

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Kalamata Kid wrote:Personally I would like to see a romantic classical music revival with original or even modern harmonies.
Thanks :)

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wagtunes wrote:Okay, here is the definition of "samey" that I got from dictionary.com

1.
(informal) monotonous; repetitive; unvaried

I'm sorry, it is clearly anything BUT.

If that is the case, every single symphony ever written is samey.

In this case, you are just plain wrong.

Now if you had just said to me you thought it musically sucked, there's not much I can say to argue with that as that's an opinion. But samey, as a clinical definition, simply does not apply to this piece.
Your so called "symphony" is "samey" because:

1. You practically used just one articulation for 40 minutes: legato.

2. No dynamics whatsoever. One flat sound all the way.

3. You are stuck in one basic octave and chord and using dyad to form your music which makes everything "samey" because you are practically using the same 4-5 notes over and over again.

4. No expressiveness whatsoever, read 1, 2 and 3.

5. Shallow, non-existing harmony.
For your "symphony" to be created what we need is this:
1. Open your DAW or take your MIDI keyboard
2. Use only index fingers to play notes, because we need 2 notes only to play at the same time.
3. DON'T use black keys, IGNORE black keys. Just use white keys.
4. That's your "symphony" in a nutshell.
This leads to not having any chord progressions, minor chords, rich harmony, nothing.
Just one flat, dull, empty, boring, repetitive, meaningless sound.
Symphony as a form requires A LOT MORE.

6. Saying how it's done in a rhapsody style is laughable. Rhapsody requires the change of mood at least.
You replacing one instrument(s) with another while they are playing the same notes in different order has nothing to do with rhapsody, but it has something to do with your poor composing skills by not being able to make music to flow naturally. You get stuck, don't know what to do next and you change instruments to make things interesting. In reality - it makes things more dull.
It's the result of not even composing anything, just using the same notes in different order over and over again.

7. Your woodwind players apparently have lungs of elephants.
8-12 seconds long phrases are the law, the rule. Highly skilled players can hold one note for hours by
using circular breathing technique, but this doesn't applies to symphonic works. It's 8-12 seconds.
You have 30+ seconds long phrases of "people" blowing the shit out of themselves without taking any air...

8. No one even mentioned mistakes, like that one in 4th movement at 2:37 and I found it by just scrolling through. Obvious wrong note is obvious.

To summarize:
This so called "symphony" is light years from even being called symphony.
It lacks tons of stuff technically, musically, harmonically, conceptually.
Whoever wants to call it a symphony - be my guest, but I can't participate in that nonsense because it would be like taking selfie and comparing it to portrait of Mona Liza and saying it's the same thing (portrait is a portrait, right?)

Symphony has gradually climbed above other forms of music, became more sophisticated, more complex, more demanding, harmonically, musically, bigger orchestras. Go listen to Haydn's early symphonies who is the grandfather of symphony and compare his early symphonies to this dull, empty, one chord, only legato, no dynamics whatsoever, crippled nonsense.

Basically, the guy doesn't even understand what symphony is, that's the point.
For him a symphony is making 4 things to last for 10 minutes and that's all that matters.
You don't legato for 40 minutes with zero expressiveness and call that a symphony. You call that a joke.

If Wag was a humble guy, knowing his limits, being aware of his lack of knowledge things would be different. This way he's just showing his arrogance and ignorance, his egoistic and narcissistic side which pisses off people....you know, talking about Beethoven and Beethoven's repetitiveness like he's on the same level with Beethoven, accusing Beethoven for repetitiveness while he's placing 4-5 same notes for 40 minutes.
Unbelievable.

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Whew! :o

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A Symphony does not have to be the last

B Symphony could address some of the issues mentioned to make it more vibrant

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Tchandra wrote:To find a small group of classical musicians is easier than winning the lottery I guess :hihi:
And they can be ferocious, like herding kittens, need to be tamed.

I think it would be easier to be a football manager :D

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wagtunes, I gave your first and second movements a listen (on my phone, so with tinny little phone-speakers). I liked a lot of things about the composition, and found some things that could be improved. I agree with some of the points that the rude fellow a few posts up made, although not with others of them, and certainly not with his tone.

The way you developed the theme was good, although at times a bit predictable. I like the way you varied your melodic lines but the "pacing" could have been changed up more; at times it felt like the piece was "plodding" forward and could have used rhythmic variation. In particular, in seemed like some of the ideas ran together without a proper transition/introduction or rhythmic separation. Well, that's just my impression and I'm struggling a bit to express the idea precisely. But something like that maybe.

I agree with the points made above that the piece could have benefited from more dynamics and expressivity. You may be somewhat hampered here by the sample library you're using. But more attention to detail would certainly be possible here and would benefit the performance.

I really liked the flute solo in the second movement, and there were a lot of good ideas in the piece. Overall a fine first effort!

(P.S. - I thought it was pretty clear that your reference to Beethoven was simply stating that even great composers used repetition, so that repetition isn't per se a bad thing, and not that you were putting yourself on his level!)
A well-behaved signature.

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brainzistor wrote:
Your so called "symphony" is "samey" because:

1. You practically used just one articulation for 40 minutes: legato.

2. No dynamics whatsoever. One flat sound all the way.

3. You are stuck in one basic octave and chord and using dyad to form your music which makes everything "samey" because you are practically using the same 4-5 notes over and over again.

4. No expressiveness whatsoever, read 1, 2 and 3.

5. Shallow, non-existing harmony.
For your "symphony" to be created what we need is this:
1. Open your DAW or take your MIDI keyboard
2. Use only index fingers to play notes, because we need 2 notes only to play at the same time.
3. DON'T use black keys, IGNORE black keys. Just use white keys.
4. That's your "symphony" in a nutshell.
This leads to not having any chord progressions, minor chords, rich harmony, nothing.
Just one flat, dull, empty, boring, repetitive, meaningless sound.
Symphony as a form requires A LOT MORE.

6. Saying how it's done in a rhapsody style is laughable. Rhapsody requires the change of mood at least.
You replacing one instrument(s) with another while they are playing the same notes in different order has nothing to do with rhapsody, but it has something to do with your poor composing skills by not being able to make music to flow naturally. You get stuck, don't know what to do next and you change instruments to make things interesting. In reality - it makes things more dull.
It's the result of not even composing anything, just using the same notes in different order over and over again.

7. Your woodwind players apparently have lungs of elephants.
8-12 seconds long phrases are the law, the rule. Highly skilled players can hold one note for hours by
using circular breathing technique, but this doesn't applies to symphonic works. It's 8-12 seconds.
You have 30+ seconds long phrases of "people" blowing the shit out of themselves without taking any air...

8. No one even mentioned mistakes, like that one in 4th movement at 2:37 and I found it by just scrolling through. Obvious wrong note is obvious.

To summarize:
This so called "symphony" is light years from even being called symphony.
It lacks tons of stuff technically, musically, harmonically, conceptually.
Whoever wants to call it a symphony - be my guest, but I can't participate in that nonsense because it would be like taking selfie and comparing it to portrait of Mona Liza and saying it's the same thing (portrait is a portrait, right?)

Symphony has gradually climbed above other forms of music, became more sophisticated, more complex, more demanding, harmonically, musically, bigger orchestras. Go listen to Haydn's early symphonies who is the grandfather of symphony and compare his early symphonies to this dull, empty, one chord, only legato, no dynamics whatsoever, crippled nonsense.

Basically, the guy doesn't even understand what symphony is, that's the point.
For him a symphony is making 4 things to last for 10 minutes and that's all that matters.
You don't legato for 40 minutes with zero expressiveness and call that a symphony. You call that a joke.

If Wag was a humble guy, knowing his limits, being aware of his lack of knowledge things would be different. This way he's just showing his arrogance and ignorance, his egoistic and narcissistic side which pisses off people....you know, talking about Beethoven and Beethoven's repetitiveness like he's on the same level with Beethoven, accusing Beethoven for repetitiveness while he's placing 4-5 same notes for 40 minutes.
Unbelievable.
Ouch,
I have a funny feeling Wag aint gonna like what you've said. :D
As you say there's a bum note in the 4th movement, just how and why that got past Wag remains a mystery ...well spotted indeed.
No one can say that you don't know what you are talking about that's for sure and
it is at least constructive criticism.

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Rather than Beethoven it makes me think about Zappa's Francesco Zappa synclavier outing

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wagtunes wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
wagtunes wrote:But I guess you're not really into classical music.
What do you mean by that?
wagtunes wrote:As for the library, well, it's the only thing compatible with Finale 4 that sounds even half decent, so I had to make the best of it.
Can't these parts be exported to midi and patched in other libraries?
What I mean by that is if you actually think this symphony is "samey" then you don't listen to a lot of symphonies. Most are borderline monotonous as they basically play thee same theme for that movement over and over. Somebody into classical music would know that. That's all I'm saying. You clearly are not.
nice work... :tu: and dont worry, not "samey" at all...although I would prefer more "samey", repetitive style /as I like Phil Glass a lot/ :lol:
one can only imagine how better this kind of music will sound when performed by real musicians :)

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Repetitive notes with only adding new instruments...

Maybe that's why Ravels Bolero is so hated 8)
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"

Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy

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