Hardware vs software synths take infinity : topic initial focus Andromeda A6

[tehlord]

There's an art to making a point without posting a link to your own soundcloud.

Oh my, are the big bad forum police going to come after me?

For the love of God, do you have any idea how many people here post links to stuff they did on Soundcloud?

Maybe you need to seriously get a life instead of trying to find something to bitch about.

Are you really old and know about the good old days?

Me too.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good?

Because Alesis are really good in making reverbs. I mean, really really good. Most on-board reverbs of softsynths (including ours) don't sound as good as the Alesis reverb built into the Andromeda. The best fix for this is to buy a decent reverb and drench the sound of any synth in it, like it was done in the video you linked. Problem solved, huge amounts of money saved

This is exactly *why* i gave the option of anyone posting diva (or any synth) examples with ANY effect plugin they want. Or hardware for that matter. Do you truly believe the alesis reverb is better than the 1:1 relab 480 emulation for example, or exponential stuff, which many kvr users have (the latter).?

That said, some good posts here, and i do agree with others it's all subjective.

i'll be posting some specific time points soon

[wagtunes]

There's an art to making a point without posting a link to your own soundcloud.

Oh my, are the big bad forum police going to come after me?

For the love of God, do you have any idea how many people here post links to stuff they did on Soundcloud?

Maybe you need to seriously get a life instead of trying to find something to bitch about.

Are you really old and know about the good old days?

Me too.

Really old? Age is kind of relative. Next to the guys I play Magic the Gathering with on Saturday, yeah, I'm old enough to be their father. Next to the guy I sing in choir with (he's 94) I'm young enough to be his son.

I grew up with the Beatles in the 60s. Some people I know grew up before Benny Goodman was even born.

It's all relative.

If I had to guess, I'd say I was in the top 20% of oldest members at this forum.

Not that it means anything.

[Dasheesh]

yeah it's the boss.
i'm not into comparing shit though, it's a waste of time.
This box of capacitors is good for this sound, that one is good for that sound.
Just use whatever you want to make some flipping music, or mass-debate the topic over and over, missing the point.

All of reality is digital, analog is digital, we just don't have high enough resolution algorithm at this moment in time that matches the analog sound. or however the science wordy stuff goes.
on, off, on, on, off
electrical signals interpreted by the brain.

sorry Theo, if you need me, i'll be back under that rock over there.
Good luck in your search, it's a fecking HEAVY beast. Like 30kg or something.
Not for gigging

I would add. software make some sounds that would be difficult to reproduce in analog. It works both ways. But after squishing, Sequencing everything with a sync button, and throwing fx all over everything, and reducing everything to a digital recording and bouncing everything anyway .... blah, blah, blah, it gets very difficult to tell the difference.

I could download those samples from the internet and load them in a sampler if I really wanted them ... game over. If you can play, you can find an instrument you love, and play it. I do compare instruments for my own personal reasons though, finding the instruments I appreciate.

[Mutant]

Any such thread without at least few samples of a >>>dry<<< synth sound is a bit useless.
I can record my dogs fart and make it sound beautiful with some effects.

If you want to have a good "vs" type thread, you need to turn off the effects, connect the synth difectly to your audio interface to take the whole local amp/speaker/room system out of the equation (which can have a HUGE impact on the sound), play some single notes low and high, then some chords.
Make it easy for people to copy the basic parameters that build the sound.

Then and only then we can compare analog synth A and virtual synth B.

[wagtunes]

Any such thread without at least few samples of a >>>dry<<< synth sound is a bit useless.
I can record my dogs fart and make it sound beautiful with some effects.

If you want to have a good "vs" type thread, you need to turn off the effects, connect the synth difectly to your audio interface to take the whole local amp/speaker/room system out of the equation (which can have a HUGE impact on the sound), play some single notes low and high, then some chords.
Make it easy for people to copy the basic parameters that build the sound.

Then and only then we can compare analog synth A and virtual synth B.

Except it's all meaningless because that's not the way music is made. Music is made with EQ and compression and reverb and whatever. Then it's all mixed together until you can't tell one synth from another.

It's as pointless as looking at two pieces of art and trying to determine which one is "better" based on the type of brush and paint the artist used. Who gives a crap?

I swear to God, I'm going to do my 20 synth test and even drag my old analog out of the basement and not ONE person here will be able to tell which synth is the analog after everything's been processed to death.

Pointless, pointless, pointless.

[V0RT3X]

There are some sounds in this clip that I have not heard a software VA nail properly.

https://soundcloud.com/andy-a6/andromeda-demo

[tehlord]

I swear to God, I'm going to do my 20 synth test and even drag my old analog out of the basement and not ONE person here will be able to tell which synth is the analog after everything's been processed to death.

Pointless, pointless, pointless.

Unless you enjoy the art of playing a nice sounding instrument without a crap load of processing.

Which quite a lot of people do.

It's easy to show that they're the same OR completely different depending on the point you're trying to make.

It's the comparisons that are pointless.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Firstly, i also need to make clear, this is not in any way an attack on Mr Heckman's instruments.. as Diva is still the best overall virtual analog vsti money can buy (imo). I never liked zebra and don't think it sounds like a virus as so many claim, but you've always known that. Diva and Hive really do have something great going on, i like them both, cool?

PS it really shows how subjective it all is - Hans Zimmer loves Jomox Sunsyn which i think is nothing more than average, obviously his ears respond to totally different stimulation to mine.

Sorry Theo, it's all subjective.

What is great sound?

I'll relate a story that just happened to me. It's totally meaningless but I think illustrates my point. Mind you, I am talking all soft synths here but the point applies to the general.

I was just working on a tune. In fact, I'm going to post it at the end.

I was looking for a stacked pad sound. I had a very specific sound in mind but I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to make it.

To play it safe, I went to my heavy duty monsters like Omni, Falcon, Diva, etc.

All my "great" expensive "can do anything" synths weren't giving me what I was looking for. Finally, I pulled out two synths that I normally wouldn't even think of and started noodling around.

Bingo!

Just what I was looking for.

The stacked pads come in at 51 seconds, 1:51 and again at around 2:20

I bet nobody can tell me what synths I used on this track, especially the riser in the beginning and end.

In fact, I'm going to make a track today containing 20 different synths and I guarantee you that nobody will be able to name all 20. Heck, I'd be surprised if they could point to more than 1 or 2 parts and specifically name those synths.

In the mix, it all gets washed away. All that "uniqueness" that you hear when just playing a solo pad or lead or whatever. It's all just part of a wide canvas and almost indistinguishable unless it's a sound that's so well known, like the opening synth comp from Van Halen's Jump (and even then, how many people would be able to tell the real Oberheim from an emulation)

This whole topic is so beyond pointless already that it's crossed into the territory of sad.

But hey, I love a good hardware vs software debate as much as the next guy since our lives are so dull and meaningless.

So what two synths did I use to make that stacked pad?

More is coming.

Hi Steve, to be 100% honest the sounds in that song were not the sort of thing that i find impossible to do with software mate. Don't get me wrong, some lovely chords and sounds, but it sounded like something i could do in sampletank or halion sonic with patch layering into their multi slots.

I think I need to explain it better.. it's not that software can't get 90% there, it's that extra 10% "magic" that's missing for me.. I think it's best to demonstrate some sounds I have never heard software equivalents of in terms of quality, even though i have indeed tried tons of equivalents and "similar" sounds.. (remember, preset whore here, over my time i must have gone through over 100 thousand software instrument presets).

After respective videos I will post time frames where applicable:
PS re the solaris, i would NOT pay $6490 AUD for a 10 poly synth even if it washed my car, cleaned my house, made me dinner and rubbed my back. There is just no way.. but it does do something magical for me:

Ok first vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8GAZfAikNo
The pad at 1:50 and remember solaris has no reverb on board
Rest of vid boring IMO

more solaris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xzo7dlpwTE

pretty much all the sounds.. it's just the tone of the damn thing.
Almost every soft synth sounds cold to me in comparison now.

Andromeda preset that made me call my friend Jack to take him up on his long time offer of a play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49i5zIYSnms
@ 6:14 (especially @ 6:30)
Like Katsunori says, "beautiful, isn't it?" "Outstanding".
FWIW i didn't listen past that point until now, as i went straight away to play with the real one.. Yes the rest of the video is not that great, that's true.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Any such thread without at least few samples of a >>>dry<<< synth sound is a bit useless.
I can record my dogs fart and make it sound beautiful with some effects.

If you want to have a good "vs" type thread, you need to turn off the effects, connect the synth difectly to your audio interface to take the whole local amp/speaker/room system out of the equation (which can have a HUGE impact on the sound), play some single notes low and high, then some chords.
Make it easy for people to copy the basic parameters that build the sound.

Then and only then we can compare analog synth A and virtual synth B.

No, there are plenty of topics for that. Plenty.

This is why i want something different here.. all i care about is the end result, even if they are using a console and external effects, i don't care.. i want to compare capability of playable single patch sounds with whatever processing, vs vst with whatever processing.
That's the whole point of the topic really.. the final playable sound.

[wagtunes]

I swear to God, I'm going to do my 20 synth test and even drag my old analog out of the basement and not ONE person here will be able to tell which synth is the analog after everything's been processed to death.

Pointless, pointless, pointless.

Unless you enjoy the art of playing a nice sounding instrument without a crap load of processing.

Which quite a lot of people do.

It's easy to show that they're the same OR completely different depending on the point you're trying to make.

It's the comparisons that are pointless.

Look, I get it. There is nothing like the feel of sitting in front of an actual piece of hardware and turning knobs and pushing sliders, which is why a lot of the rack mount "button press" synths of the 90s left me stone cold, even though they sounded fine. Sitting in front of a mega modular and turning all those dials is better than any synth experience on this planet to me.

But if I just want to make music, who the frick cares? Just give me something that makes the sounds that I want. Soft synths do that just fine. I didn't need to keep all that hardware that was taking up space. I've now got close to a hundred synths in an area the size of a PC tower. And they're perfectly fine for MY use.

So yes, to each their own and comparisons are indeed pointless.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Hmm, re knobs.. i am preferring my tetras to practically every plugin.. and i am programming them *exclusively* from a vst plugin editor.. same with my virus ti desktop.. all from the computer usually... so i can't say i am swayed by flashy knobs, although if others can be, fair enough! I am only really swayed by the final output.

[wagtunes]

Sorry Theo, but I don't know what "magic" sounds like. Perhaps someday they'll define it in the dictionary but none of those examples sound "magical" to me. They just sound like nice sounding synths.

Maybe I'm just too dense for this whole discussion.

[woodsdenis]

why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good?

Because Alesis are really good in making reverbs. I mean, really really good. Most on-board reverbs of softsynths (including ours) don't sound as good as the Alesis reverb built into the Andromeda. The best fix for this is to buy a decent reverb and drench the sound of any synth in it, like it was done in the video you linked. Problem solved, huge amounts of money saved

Spot on, ever turned off the reverb/FX in a D50 as an owner of a few of the real things (Prophet5/Minimoog) in the day I wouldn't swap any of my soft synths (Uhe, NI,etc)for them now. The caliber of VSTs now equals most of them with far less grief. The reason I say most is the fact that someone will undoubtably bring up the one synth that Urs hasn't modelled the filter for !! I am talking about all in one instruments here not massive modulars with all the inherent variations that entails.

The Andromeda was a beast and the sum of its parts, the FX section being an important component.

[recursive one]

Sorry Theo, but I don't know what "magic" sounds like. Perhaps someday they'll define it in the dictionary but none of those examples sound "magical" to me. They just sound like nice sounding synths.

I can point out at least a dozen of Virus TI demo clips which sound like pure magic to me and I'm pretty sure most people here will say that they sound nothing that special and plugins can make the same sounds even better. So this magic is not easily measurable.

You may propably remember, I've posted two tracks - onemade with Virus and one made with plugins - and people picked the plugin track as the Virus track because it was better mixed and people thought that if they like the sound more it must be hardware. While I still think the virus the best sounding synth I have it pretty much convinced me that the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in the mix nobody can really tell.

This Andromeda sounds lovely in the video and I would love to have this synth in my studio but I highly doubt I would be able to make it sound significantly better than Diva in the final mixes.