Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[jc_vt]

Many places, like NI, ask specifically for you to confirm you have deleted the software before they approve a transfer.

[chk071]

True, i saw that on a couple of other synths too.

[V0RT3X]

Ok I've had a chance to listen to the audio demos with my Focal Alpha 80 monitors, and so far I'm enjoying the sound and I can't help but wonder.

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

[ATS]

Ok I've had a chance to listen to the audio demos with my Focal Alpha 80 monitors, and so far I'm enjoying the sound and I can't help but wonder.

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

cause they want to get paid for all their work?

[V0RT3X]

[wagtunes]

So far a Tone2 product kind of looks like this.



New synthesizer1 with features (A,b,c,d,e) is released! Huge news! It's the best synthesizer in the world!

Newer synthesizer2 with more in-depth focus and control over Feature (A) but still provides cut down (b,c,d,e) is released a few years later. It features patented revolutionary new technology you can't find anywhere else. No need to explain how it's better, just believe us.

Newer Synthesizer3 comes out and basically does the same thing but with maybe Feature B being the focus this time..

I'm guessing the soft-synth business must be doing good if a bunch of people will buy your products when you go down that business route.

See if they just stayed at Synthesizer1 and kept adding improvements to it instead of rehashing a feature, adding improvements and calling it a new product they might not come across as so hokey.

Or, you could truly have a distinct product line

Wavetable synth
VA synth
FM synth
Granular synth
Modular synth
Additive synth
Hybrid synth

And keep updating them through the years. That way, you don't come off as being hokey but truly offering alternative solutions depending on what a person is looking for.

[V0RT3X]

^ This is true, I guess if they did keep on releasing huge updates to say Gladiator then the price of it would have gone up considerably.


I still want to buy Electra2 and Nemesis. They seem to be such a great pairing for synth workhorse duties because of their low CPU usage.

[Ingonator]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Actually the FM Osc Morph modes in Icarus work like the NeoFM in Nemesis so it is "real" FM. Opposing to Nemesis those FM modes do use an additional modulator oscillator with a fixed waveform (e.g., Sine, Saw r Square depending in the Morph mode) opposing to using custom waveforms for both the carrier and modulator.

This means the Fm is not done between the 3 main Oscs but it also means you could do diffeernt FM (or other Morph modes) with all 3 main Ocs. You could also render a new wavetable wit hthe current FM amount setting (the Morph knob/parameter controls the FM amount and could be modulated)

Some of the filter modes are also based on Saurus while some others are comparable to those in Electra 2 (nesides teh new modes only included in Icarus).

[Frantz]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Watching the Icarus video, I recognize a lot of reuse of Electra2 wavetables and filters. I would prefer they combine their synths into one very powerful synth (the Synthmaster approach). However, Tone2 seems to have decided to release one "new" synth a year since there's probably more cashflow that way. Having said that I will probably buy Icarus anyway.

[exmatproton]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Watching the Icarus video, I recognize a lot of reuse of Electra2 wavetables and filters. I would prefer they combine their synths into one very powerful synth (the Synthmaster approach). However, Tone2 seems to have decided to release one "new" synth a year since there's probably more cashflow that way. Having said that I will probably buy Icarus anyway.

Waiting for Ingo to reply with a comment with the list of extra features ...

[Ingonator]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Watching the Icarus video, I recognize a lot of reuse of Electra2 wavetables and filters. I would prefer they combine their synths into one very powerful synth (the Synthmaster approach). However, Tone2 seems to have decided to release one "new" synth a year since there's probably more cashflow that way. Having said that I will probably buy Icarus anyway.

It would be cool to have a kind of "Tone2 monster synth" with all features of all their other synths but i doubt taht this will happen in teh near future. Usually a synth that tries to do evertyhing will also lack in certain parts. For example while Synthmaster is indeed very powerful (and i alraedy own it since Version 1.x !!) the included wavetable synthesis is still quite limited to that in Icarus. The wavetables are still limited to 16 Waves and there is no dedicated editor to create waveforms from scratch (will maybe be added in v3.0 ??).

The filter of Icarus is alraedy more powerful than Elcectra 2 and includes modes based on the Saurus filters but the main differences of the Tone2 synths seem to be in the oscillator section.
Icarus is using wavetables only (Noise is included in teh Osc Morph Modes besides lots of other stuff...) while it does not support e.g. Sample playback like in Electra 2 (whie Icarus could do Resynthsis of Samples as a new wavetable) or HCM synthesis like in Firebird or Gladiator 2 (while the wavetable syntesis is Icarus is somehow close to HCM or could at least deliver comparable results).
The FM Morph modes in Icarus rae based omn teh Neo FM in Nemesi but Nemesis is more poweful for Fm, also as it could use custonm waveforms for teh Modulator (Icarus uses the curent wavetable as a carrier and an addition oscillator with a fixed waveform for the Modulator).
Rayblaster usus a very unique way how it handles waveforms (it could even mimic certain filters based on a loaded waveform...) that is not possible with any other synth and would be quite difficult to implement within teh sound engine of Icarus (except if there would be a kind of modular approach like in e.g. UVI Falcon).


At the end everyone could check which of teh Tone2 synths he really needs or not. For me they are all different enough to not call one of them obsolete, except Firebird maybe that could be replaced with the more powerful Gladiator 2.5.


For those who want to get all Tone2 synths and effects and also all soundsets available at their website there was aleays teh option to buy the "Complete Bundle" taht currently costs 799 €. AFAIK this should also include upcoming products.

Waiting for Ingo to reply with a comment with the list of extra features ...

Done, at least more or less...

[exmatproton]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Watching the Icarus video, I recognize a lot of reuse of Electra2 wavetables and filters. I would prefer they combine their synths into one very powerful synth (the Synthmaster approach). However, Tone2 seems to have decided to release one "new" synth a year since there's probably more cashflow that way. Having said that I will probably buy Icarus anyway.

It would be cool to have a kind of "Tone2 monster synth" with all features of all their other synths but i doubt taht this will happen in teh near future. Usually a synth that tries to do evertyhing will also lack in certain parts. For example while Synthmaster is indeed very powerful (and i alraedy own it since Version 1.x !!) the included wavetable synthesis is still quite limited to that in Icarus. The wavetables are still limited to 16 Waves and there is no dedicated editor to create waveforms from scratch (will maybe be added in v3.0 ??).

The filter of Icarus is alraedy more powerful than Elcectra 2 and includes modes based on the Saurus filters but the main differences of the Tone2 synths seem to be in the oscillator section.
Icarus is using wavetables only (Noise is included in teh Osc Morph Modes besides lots of other stuff...) while it does not support e.g. Sample playback like in Electra 2 (whie Icarus could do Resynthsis of Samples as a new wavetable) or HCM synthesis like in Firebird or Gladiator 2 (while the wavetable syntesis is Icarus is somehow close to HCM or could at least deliver comparable results).
The FM Morph modes in Icarus rae based omn teh Neo FM in Nemesi but Nemesis is more poweful for Fm, also as it could use custonm waveforms for teh Modulator (Icarus uses the curent wavetable as a carrier and an addition oscillator with a fixed waveform for the Modulator).
Rayblaster usus a very unique way how it handles waveforms (it could even mimic certain filters based on a loaded waveform...) that is not possible with any other synth and would be quite difficult to implement within teh sound engine of Icarus (except if there would be a kind of modular approach like in e.g. UVI Falcon).


At the end everyone could check which of teh Tone2 synths he really needs or not. For me they are all different enough to not call one of them obsolete, except Firebird maybe that could be replaced with the more powerful Gladiator 2.5.


For those who want to get all Tone2 synths and effects and also all soundsets available at their website there was aleays teh option to buy the "Complete Bundle" taht currently costs 799 €. AFAIK this should also include upcoming products.

Waiting for Ingo to reply with a comment with the list of extra features ...

Done, at least more or less...

[zerocrossing]

Why didn't they combine Nemesis and this into one product?

Watching the Icarus video, I recognize a lot of reuse of Electra2 wavetables and filters. I would prefer they combine their synths into one very powerful synth (the Synthmaster approach). However, Tone2 seems to have decided to release one "new" synth a year since there's probably more cashflow that way. Having said that I will probably buy Icarus anyway.

Yup. I saw them do the same thing with Gladiator/Electra. I don't think it gets them anything because I probably would have updated to Gladiator 3 without much thought, but I didn't buy Electra (ElectraX) and only bought Electra2 when it was part of that 2 for 1 where I ended up with Nemesis too. I don't really need another wavetable synth (like that's ever stopped me) so I'll probably wait until someone's board with this one and get a used license. If they had rolled these features into Electra I'd have just upgraded to "Electra 3."

[Frantz]

Yup. I saw them do the same thing with Gladiator/Electra. I don't think it gets them anything because I probably would have updated to Gladiator 3 without much thought, but I didn't buy Electra (ElectraX) and only bought Electra2 when it was part of that 2 for 1 where I ended up with Nemesis too. I don't really need another wavetable synth (like that's ever stopped me) so I'll probably wait until someone's board with this one and get a used license. If they had rolled these features into Electra I'd have just upgraded to "Electra 3."

I would also prefer to pay to upgrade to Electra3 instead of buying Icarus because I made a lot of Electra2 patches that won't be compatible with Icarus. However, a lot of users grumble about paid upgrades. Also Tone2 gets a bigger marketing splash (more press coverage) with a new synth than a 3.0 upgrade.

I agree with Ingo's point that Rayblaster is its own unique beast. It doesn't fit into the Electra framework. I haven't tried Nemesis so can't really comment on it.

[exmatproton]

"Rayblaster usus a very unique way how it handles waveforms (it could even mimic certain filters based on a loaded waveform...) that is not possible with any other synth and would be quite difficult to implement within teh sound engine of Icarus (except if there would be a kind of modular approach like in e.g. UVI Falcon)"

This is very possible with a synth like Harmor. You can throw in anything you want and use it like whatever. One can color the sound by using waves, envelopes, phaser-like types. Rayblaster does it in a different way, but Harmor can certainly load "pretending filter-types"-waves. Awesome synth btw, Harmor. Still totally in love with that one...(but miles offtopic )