Waves Codex Wavetable Synth

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Codex Wavetable Synth

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Shabdahbriah wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I just checked again if the size of the single waveforms does matter for the imported result or not.
In my example posted above i used 512 samples for a single waveform (like in the factory wavetables) and now i tried the same with 2048 samples.

Here is a screenshot in Codeex using the wavetable with 512 samples for each wave (left) and with 2048 samples for one waveform (right):
Image

You could see that it looks different and when scanning trough the table it also sound different.
THe right one looks like it uses around the half of the "mirrored" waveforms at the left which could be useful too but sound wise is not identical. When i set the pitch of the right one an octave higher the sound is closer but misses some additional harmonics of the left one.

Of course Codex seems to be able to import almost any WAV file in some way but in some cases like this it is important that it is imported properly.
Very interesting study/comparison, Ingo. Thanks for sharing. 8)

I'm looking forward to playing/experimenting with this, with files created in Audio Term. I really like the interface/layout, and simplicity (perceived "limitations") of Codex, actually.
I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but what is the point of this comparison? I understand they are different and should be similar? What's the practical use of it?
Anyway, I find it so easy to just import any small file (works great with drums samples!) and save it with the preset.

Usually the Wavetable synths sound digital (and sometimes harsh digital), but it is rare to find something like Codex. It doesn't sound like anything else! (except Element :hihi: ). Yes, it sounds analogish that only somehow Largo (or Blofeld indeed) can usually do this.

I have some wavetable synths, but the most enjoyment in sound design I have is with Codex. Although it is limited with filters and modulations compared to others, but it is surprisingly very versatile. The wave import and the way the scanning is done through the one table (and stack of tables) is very interesting and clear (Can we say 3D here? :clown: )

For $79, it is a steal. It complements Dune 2/Massive perfectly that I don't have a need for most of my synths (includes Blofeld). I'm really happy to have it and recommend it to anyone wants easy to use one page synth that also very versatile with a very nice character.

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EnGee wrote: I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but what is the point of this comparison? I understand they are different and should be similar? What's the practical use of it?
Anyway, I find it so easy to just import any small file (works great with drums samples!) and save it with the preset.
FWIW i had sold Codex quite a while ago, even before i got the Icarus Beta (that i used a LOT recently. Also got a bunch of oter wavetable synts here (including all plugins from Waldorf).

Concerning that comparison you quoted:
With importing samples the way how each of teh important waveforms looks is not so important but if you want to import a certain wavetable that was e.g. prepepared with Audio Term (one of the very few options to create custom tables fro Codex) it could be more important that the waveforms looks like in the original table.
The Codex factory wavetables are WAV files too and those use 512 samples per waveforms (with 64 different waveforms in the table).
If you impoprt wavetables from e.g. Serum or Icarus that use 2048 samples per waveform the imported result in Codex could be wrong compared to the original wavetable.

In UVI Falcon you could add teh wacwform size (e.g. 2048 samples) at the end of the name of the WAV file that you want to import and that way Falcon could import the table properly.

In Icarus the default format is comparable to Serum with 2048 samples per waveform and loading Codex wavetables there could lead to wrong results too. Anyway it is still possible to import wavetables in other formats by Resynthesis. In the future also teh "import wavetable" feature should be implemented in Icarus to import different wavetable formats properly.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Ingonator wrote: The Codex factory wavetables are WAV files too and those use 512 samples per waveforms (with 64 different waveforms in the table).
If you impoprt wavetables from e.g. Serum or Icarus that use 2048 samples per waveform the imported result in Codex could be wrong compared to the original wavetable.
So what if you import a wav file that uses 512 smaples per waveforms, can't Codex import it properly? If it does, then there is a bug somewhere and should be reported. If it is not designed to import Serum tables (2048 samples), then it is missing a feature, but still not a bug, right?

Well, I've spent more time with Codex (and Element also!, but let's forget that for now). Codex is a great wavetable synth really. I don't think I will buy another wavetable synth any time soon! Slowly, I began to know my tools better and Codex is from those synths that I will invest learning/using them (together with Element). While Icarus is also a great synth with lower cpu usage, but having Codex and Dune 2 eliminates any need for another wavetable synth for me :D

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EnGee wrote:
Ingonator wrote: The Codex factory wavetables are WAV files too and those use 512 samples per waveforms (with 64 different waveforms in the table).
If you impoprt wavetables from e.g. Serum or Icarus that use 2048 samples per waveform the imported result in Codex could be wrong compared to the original wavetable.
Well, I've spent more time with Codex (and Element also!, but let's forget that for now). Codex is a great wavetable synth really. I don't think I will buy another wavetable synth any time soon! Slowly, I began to know my tools better and Codex is from those synths that I will invest learning/using them (together with Element). While Icarus is also a great synth with lower cpu usage, but having Codex and Dune 2 eliminates any need for another wavetable synth for me :D
Codex is índeed very nice but afte ra while i felt i do not really need it and had rarely used it so i sold it. FWIW i still got Element too and had updated it to v2.

Here is a list of my current wavetable synths so i am a bit "spoiled" with those too (while wavetable synths are more or less my favorite synth/synthesis type):
- Novation UltraNova (hardware)
- Waldorf Blofeld (hardware)
- Tone2 Icarus
- Waldorf Nave
- Waldorf Largo
- Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V
- Waldorf PPG Wave 2.V (from Waldorf Edition 2)
- PPG Wavemapper 2
- PPG Wavegenerator
- DUNE 2
- UVI Falcon
- Synthmaster 2.8
- NI Massive

Also got a Wavestation EX (hardware) and the Wavestation plugin and while those are not really wavetable synths the result of the wavesequencing could be similar.

Also got Audio Term for doing custom wavetables (long before i had Icarus) while wavetables saved with Icarus are also compatible with e.g. UVI Falcon.

Currently i do mostly focus on Icarus, Nave and also UltraNova for doing my own patches and there is enough work to do with those. The new updates for Synthmaster v2.8 do look interesting too.

Some other wavetable synths like e.g. Serum and Spire are not really my cup of tea so i never bought those (while i chekced the demo versions of both more than one time).
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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EnGee wrote:
Ingonator wrote: The Codex factory wavetables are WAV files too and those use 512 samples per waveforms (with 64 different waveforms in the table).
If you impoprt wavetables from e.g. Serum or Icarus that use 2048 samples per waveform the imported result in Codex could be wrong compared to the original wavetable.
So what if you import a wav file that uses 512 smaples per waveforms, can't Codex import it properly? If it does, then there is a bug somewhere and should be reported. If it is not designed to import Serum tables (2048 samples), then it is missing a feature, but still not a bug, right?
It certainly isn't "a bug". IMHO, "properly" is relative to the original waveform when it was created, or as played in a synth for which it was intended. So, it isn't "wrong" in the sense of "bad", only in the sense of how it sounds compared to when played in the synth/program (e.g. Audio Term) of origins. So, yes it does play it, but just "differently". That was the point of the experiment. To discover that, and see if adjustments could be made within Codex, to make it sound the same as it does elsewhere, without modifying/re-working the original waveform/table, to comply with Waves specific wavetable format, and/or to see if it sounds cool anyway, as is.

The start/middle/end parameters flexibility, is really cool. I look forward to loading all kinds of stuff into it... not just making wavetables for it, but glad I can. :wink:

[aside] It has occurred to me, that if enough people requested it, Steve might consider making Serums' wavetable creator function available as a stand alone app. I'd certainly pay for it. Nice if it could set how many 'slices', and at what rate (512/1024/2048, etc) as an output format.

Just a thought.
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil

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Ingonator wrote: Codex is índeed very nice but afte ra while i felt i do not really need it and had rarely used it so i sold it. FWIW i still got Element too and had updated it to v2.
To be honest, I almost sold it together with Element :hihi: (v1 at that time) because I was frustrated with the protection (USB plug/unplug thing). But, I'm very glad now that I didn't! For the protection, well, I'm using now 90% my desktop PC for synths and left the laptop just for learning piano.
Here is a list of my current wavetable synths so i am a bit "spoiled" with those too (while wavetable synths are more or less my favorite synth/synthesis type):
- Novation UltraNova (hardware)
- Waldorf Blofeld (hardware)
- Tone2 Icarus
- Waldorf Nave
- Waldorf Largo
- Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V
- Waldorf PPG Wave 2.V (from Waldorf Edition 2)
- PPG Wavemapper 2
- PPG Wavegenerator
- DUNE 2
- UVI Falcon
- Synthmaster 2.8
- NI Massive

Also got a Wavestation EX (hardware) and the Wavestation plugin and while those are not really wavetable synths the result of the wavesequencing could be similar.

Also got Audio Term for doing custom wavetables (long before i had Icarus) while wavetables saved with Icarus are also compatible with e.g. UVI Falcon.

Currently i do mostly focus on Icarus, Nave and also UltraNova for doing my own patches and there is enough work to do with those. The new updates for Synthmaster v2.8 do look interesting too.

Some other wavetable synths like e.g. Serum and Spire are not really my cup of tea so i never bought those (while i chekced the demo versions of both more than one time).


Yes, you have impressive collection of wavetable synths. I have less, but my top of the wavetable synths currently are Codex, Dune 2 and Massive. Still, of course love Largo/Blofeld, Synthmaster and Hybrid 3. But it is the same as you, I need in the end to choose few synths to concentrate on. Of course, Element 2 sounds so great really that I was switching back and forth between it and between ACE (my other favourite analogish synth) and I couldn't choose one of them only!

Anyway, although I won't buy new synths (might be only a Korg Mini MS-20 after some time), but I won't sell anything! I have learnt that every synth has its glorious day and this day might repeat quicker than I think!
Shabdahbriah wrote: It certainly isn't "a bug". IMHO, "properly" is relative to the original waveform when it was created, or as played in a synth for which it was intended. So, it isn't "wrong" in the sense of "bad", only in the sense of how it sounds compared to when played in the synth/program (e.g. Audio Term) of origins. So, yes it does play it, but just "differently". That was the point of the experiment. To discover that, and see if adjustments could be made within Codex, to make it sound the same as it does elsewhere, without modifying/re-working the original waveform/table, to comply with Waves specific wavetable format, and/or to see if it sounds cool anyway, as is.

The start/middle/end parameters flexibility, is really cool. I look forward to loading all kinds of stuff into it... not just making wavetables for it, but glad I can. :wink:
Oh OK then. I thought it might be a bug. I'm really too lazy to make my own wavetables! I have a free one to make wavetables for Blofeld, but I haven't done anything with it! Maybe because I feel the wavetables in Blofeld is more than enough for me, so why bother if I haven't yet exhausted what's already there!

With Codex, it is easier to just select any wave file and import it, then having a good play with it! But still, I haven't explored all the wavetables that come with it yet!

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is there anyone at kvr who does not know ingon's set up already? :hihi:

guys with 2 posts count - it wasn't question for you ;)

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Yeah I have a few synths too, but thinly one I had at the time covering a wavetable synth was Logic's Retro Synth. At that point Codex came out. I loved Element and I liked Codex's no fuss approach to editing so I got that.

Serum came out at the same time and offered far more features, but extra features weren't what I was after, I have other plugins I payed for that covered a large part of the department, I'd much rather use those and get my money's worth, on a personal level.

Plus i loved the whole Virtual Voltage tech Waves came up with. The oscillators in Element and Codex are so thick and lush without having to anything to them. No detuning and or saturation tricks, if you just strait up run a plain oscillator it already sounds so rich right out of the box. So I chose richness, ease and speed of editing over fancy extras.

Don't get me wrong, Serum is also good and powerful, its just not what I wanted in a wavetable synth

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With the 50$ gift code (starts today) that could be added to the current 79$ sale price of Codex this results in just 29$ for Codex which was impossible for me to pass so i again got it (as mentioend above i sold it in the past...) for that insane price.. :)
Last edited by Ingonator on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Ingonator wrote:With the 50$ gift code (starts today) that could be added to the current 79$ sale price of Codex this results in just 29$ for Codex which was impossible for me to pass so i again got it (as mentioend above o sopld it in the past...) for that insane price.. :)
:tu:
Impossible prices!

Codex and Element are from my favourite synths. They sound better with time as well, I mean the more I spend playing with them, the more I like them :D

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$29 is crazy price, but I wonder if I'll leave it alone

I am not so impressed reading reviews like:

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... dex-613355

If it is like Element which is very CPU intensive ... :scared:

And I got problems getting Waves plugs to show up in FL Studio

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Codex uses less cpu than Element 2, but more than Element 1. It is not light on the cpu, but not that heavy. Of course it is heavier than Massive or Largo (for example).

Personally, I don't agree with that conclusion from the review in musicradar. It's very similar to Element yes, but it can sound very different as well! It has simple interface with just two oscillators/1 filter, but it is not limited at all in sound. The control over the wavetables is really great and easy.

Anyway, it has the idea of "less is more" which I like a lot. Ok, going to buy something. Didn't decide yet, but it might be a tape plugin :)

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It always sounds dull (in hi frequency) to me when compared to Serum etc.
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Numanoid wrote:$29 is crazy price, but I wonder if I'll leave it alone

I am not so impressed reading reviews like:

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... dex-613355

If it is like Element which is very CPU intensive ... :scared:

And I got problems getting Waves plugs to show up in FL Studio
Everytime you want to add waves plugins to fl studio (since 11 at least), you need to do a verified scan.
No problems whatsoever over here when doing that :)

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EnGee wrote:Codex uses less cpu than Element 2, but more than Element 1. It is not light on the cpu, but not that heavy. Of course it is heavier than Massive or Largo (for example).

Personally, I don't agree with that conclusion from the review in musicradar. It's very similar to Element yes, but it can sound very different as well! It has simple interface with just two oscillators/1 filter, but it is not limited at all in sound. The control over the wavetables is really great and easy.

Anyway, it has the idea of "less is more" which I like a lot. Ok, going to buy something. Didn't decide yet, but it might be a tape plugin :)
Yeah... I'd totally agree to all that.

People wanted "more" from Element, so they got it with Element 2. The synth is already highly optimised, there is just a price to pay for improving the quality which is CPU consumption. You just can't have your metaphorical cake and eat it too.

Hands down it has the best oscillators on a myth that I've heard, as I keep reminding people. So the improvement does pay off. You do have the option of switching between Element 2 & Element one quite seamlessly, so you can look at that as your low quality/high quality button in a way. People can write with low quality, mix with high if the CPU usage is an issue.

I like the fact the Codex and Element interface is straightforward, no fuss. You can get in there tweak something quite quickly. I've already invested quite a bit of money on other effects so I'd rather use a lot of the time that any of the effects that comes with a synth. In Logic you can use a summing stack if you wanted more oscillators then put Metafilter on the stack to filter everything together. Thats if your CPU can handle it.

Personally I prefer layering as opposed to stacking, because then you can play a slightly different arrangement or inversion to compliment the original making for a more deeper complex sound in in my opinion.

There's plenty of ways you an work with it.

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