My Mother 32 just arrived moments ago! I was just about to start patching it with the System 1m and I got an odd crash in Live... damn computers.risome wrote: My O coast is coming early in July
SoloRack modular synth
- KVRAF
- 14942 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Zerocrossing Media
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
The thing is that I'm offering the synth engine its self for free.deastman wrote:I definitely think you need to offer a starter set of modules like what Softube did, rather than just an empty track. I started way in 1996 with a Doepfer Basic System 2, because I wanted a full system to without initially having to buy individual modules. Any new synth should be capable of making noises right out of the box.
Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and a high end for about $200, Would that be a problem?
Last edited by S0lo on Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
- KVRAF
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
This may sound like a really stupid question. If I get JUST the synth engine and nothing else, what can I do with the synth engine by itself?S0lo wrote:The thing is that I'm offering the synth engine its self for free.deastman wrote:I definitely think you need to offer a starter set of modules like what Softube did, rather than just an empty track. I started way in 1996 with a Doepfer Basic System 2, because I wanted a full system to without initially having to buy individual modules. Any new synth should be capable of making noises right out of the box.
Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and so on.... Would that be a problem?
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
Nothing,wagtunes wrote:This may sound like a really stupid question. If I get JUST the synth engine and nothing else, what can I do with the synth engine by itself?S0lo wrote:The thing is that I'm offering the synth engine its self for free.deastman wrote:I definitely think you need to offer a starter set of modules like what Softube did, rather than just an empty track. I started way in 1996 with a Doepfer Basic System 2, because I wanted a full system to without initially having to buy individual modules. Any new synth should be capable of making noises right out of the box.
Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and so on.... Would that be a problem?
The point is you can start off just by ONE cheep module. Say just a simple delay, but then patch 5 or 10 of this module together to create a very complex delay and use the whole plugin as an effect. To do that in eurorack, you obviously have to buy 5 or 10 of the same module.
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
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- KVRAF
- 10984 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle
Either way...S0lo wrote: Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and a high end for about $200, Would that be a problem?
ORS0lo wrote:The point is you can start off just by ONE cheep module. Say just a simple delay, but then patch 5 or 10 of this module together to create a very complex delay and use the whole plugin as an effect. To do that in eurorack, you obviously have to buy 5 or 10 of the same module.
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I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil
- KVRAF
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Yes, you're right. If I want to do that with hardware, I'd have to buy 5 to 10 delays that would cost me a fortune.S0lo wrote:Nothing,wagtunes wrote:This may sound like a really stupid question. If I get JUST the synth engine and nothing else, what can I do with the synth engine by itself?S0lo wrote:The thing is that I'm offering the synth engine its self for free.deastman wrote:I definitely think you need to offer a starter set of modules like what Softube did, rather than just an empty track. I started way in 1996 with a Doepfer Basic System 2, because I wanted a full system to without initially having to buy individual modules. Any new synth should be capable of making noises right out of the box.
Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and so on.... Would that be a problem?
The point is you can start off just by ONE cheep module. Say just a simple delay, but then patch 5 or 10 of this module together to create a very complex delay and use the whole plugin as an effect. To do that in eurorack, you obviously have to buy 5 or 10 of the same module.
Point is, we're not talking about hardware. I have no desire to own hardware. I sold all my hardware years ago and I've been doing this since 1979.
I have been totally ITB since 2014 and I have many modular synths of the software variety, including...
MUX
KarmaFX
Softube
Falcon
Sonigen (free)
I also have a few "fixed" or what I call semi modular synths like Zebra 2, Bazille, etc that I won't include in this conversation because I don't consider them true modulars.
The 5 above, including Sonigen which is free, cost me all of $50, $65, $132 and $239 for complete systems, Falcon being the most expensive as it's more than just a modular synth. It's kind of its own beast.
But MUX and KarmaFx, both complete, cost me about $100 between the two of them and have as many modules as I want to use for each patch.
Softube is going to be a little more pricey but even that was only $132 with about 25 or so standard modules and the 3 add ons.
Putting all this into perspective, imagine that your modular charged a paltry $20 per module, which is less than Softube's pricing.
Let's see how quickly this adds up to a fortune.
4 waveform OSC
FM OSC
Wavetable OSC
Low Pass Filter
Multi Filter
ADSR
VCA
Sequencer
Delay
Chorus
Reverb
Compressor
Flanger
Phaser
We're already up to $280 and we haven't even gotten into any of the obscure stuff. This is just meat and potatoes.
Ultimately, I can see your system costing in the range of an Omnisphere 2 ($500) if somebody wanted all the modules available.
Regardless of quality, which would have to be off the charts amazing, why would I even consider doing this when I have MUX for $50 that gives me everything I could possibly want in a modular even if the sound quality isn't quite as good, which would be arguable anyway?
I just don't see this model working except for those who are used to investing in Eurorack hardware. And then, if they are, why would they even bother with software?
You yourself said you're not a businessman. Well I've been running my own business for over 16 years now and I can't see this model appealing to more than just a very specialized sub niche of the modular niche market. I, who buys every modular synth he can get his hands on, would not be part of your market. I'd want too many modules (all of them) and they would cost me way more than I'd be willing to spend on them. I could not afford your model. And if I can't have what I consider a fully functioning modular synth, I don't want it at all because settling for just a "few" modules would leave me disappointed.
You can take these words to heart or disregard them or whatever. I like what I saw and heard. But I'm not going to buy this thing module by module in what could end up being a 100 module synth easily.
- KVRAF
- 6304 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York
You are giving away a synth engine that does nothing for free!S0lo wrote: Nothing,
Where do I sign up?
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
Thanks...!!Shabdahbriah wrote:Either way...S0lo wrote: Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and a high end for about $200, Would that be a problem?
ORS0lo wrote:The point is you can start off just by ONE cheep module. Say just a simple delay, but then patch 5 or 10 of this module together to create a very complex delay and use the whole plugin as an effect. To do that in eurorack, you obviously have to buy 5 or 10 of the same module.
I appreciate your thinking, and understand your reasoning. I will come up with something. It's a bit too early, there are allot of modules I need to add, allot of testing and may be beta versions. It will take time before this is released. And even after it's released, there are so many module ideas to add.wagtunes wrote:Yes, you're right. If I want to do that with hardware, I'd have to buy 5 to 10 delays that would cost me a fortune.S0lo wrote:Nothing,wagtunes wrote:This may sound like a really stupid question. If I get JUST the synth engine and nothing else, what can I do with the synth engine by itself?S0lo wrote:The thing is that I'm offering the synth engine its self for free.deastman wrote:I definitely think you need to offer a starter set of modules like what Softube did, rather than just an empty track. I started way in 1996 with a Doepfer Basic System 2, because I wanted a full system to without initially having to buy individual modules. Any new synth should be capable of making noises right out of the box.
Introductory offers aside, As far as I can underhand, the bundle (starter set) is supposed to give you a REDUCED price, summing to a regular synth price like $99 or a highly pimped synth like $150, or a high end synth like $200. If I price the modules in a away that lets you build a regular synth for about $99, a highly pimped synth for about $150 and so on.... Would that be a problem?
The point is you can start off just by ONE cheep module. Say just a simple delay, but then patch 5 or 10 of this module together to create a very complex delay and use the whole plugin as an effect. To do that in eurorack, you obviously have to buy 5 or 10 of the same module.
Point is, we're not talking about hardware. I have no desire to own hardware. I sold all my hardware years ago and I've been doing this since 1979.
I have been totally ITB since 2014 and I have many modular synths of the software variety, including...
MUX
KarmaFX
Softube
Falcon
Sonigen (free)
I also have a few "fixed" or what I call semi modular synths like Zebra 2, Bazille, etc that I won't include in this conversation because I don't consider them true modulars.
The 5 above, including Sonigen which is free, cost me all of $50, $65, $132 and $239 for complete systems, Falcon being the most expensive as it's more than just a modular synth. It's kind of its own beast.
But MUX and KarmaFx, both complete, cost me about $100 between the two of them and have as many modules as I want to use for each patch.
Softube is going to be a little more pricey but even that was only $132 with about 25 or so standard modules and the 3 add ons.
Putting all this into perspective, imagine that your modular charged a paltry $20 per module, which is less than Softube's pricing.
Let's see how quickly this adds up to a fortune.
4 waveform OSC
FM OSC
Wavetable OSC
Low Pass Filter
Multi Filter
ADSR
VCA
Sequencer
Delay
Chorus
Reverb
Compressor
Flanger
Phaser
We're already up to $280 and we haven't even gotten into any of the obscure stuff. This is just meat and potatoes.
Ultimately, I can see your system costing in the range of an Omnisphere 2 ($500) if somebody wanted all the modules available.
Regardless of quality, which would have to be off the charts amazing, why would I even consider doing this when I have MUX for $50 that gives me everything I could possibly want in a modular even if the sound quality isn't quite as good, which would be arguable anyway?
I just don't see this model working except for those who are used to investing in Eurorack hardware. And then, if they are, why would they even bother with software?
You yourself said you're not a businessman. Well I've been running my own business for over 16 years now and I can't see this model appealing to more than just a very specialized sub niche of the modular niche market. I, who buys every modular synth he can get his hands on, would not be part of your market. I'd want too many modules (all of them) and they would cost me way more than I'd be willing to spend on them. I could not afford your model. And if I can't have what I consider a fully functioning modular synth, I don't want it at all because settling for just a "few" modules would leave me disappointed.
You can take these words to heart or disregard them or whatever. I like what I saw and heard. But I'm not going to buy this thing module by module in what could end up being a 100 module synth easily.
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
- KVRAF
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Exactly my point. This could add up to a fortune in the blink of an eye.I appreciate your thinking, and understand your reasoning. I will come up with something. It's a bit too early, there are allot of modules I need to add, allot of testing and may be beta versions. It will take time before this is released. And even after it's released, there are so many module ideas to add.
- KVRAF
- 7324 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
Here's my version:wagtunes wrote:Let's see how quickly this adds up to a fortune.
Version 1:
just one oscillator module
This is multiple instances of oscillators, it's multiple LFOs, and it does FM. (Assuming the system supports signal mixing; that might be a second module.) It's a great MicroBrute expander already.
Version 2:
oscillator
envelope
VCA
filter
It's already super flexible and basically complete, and it costs $80, or $100 if the mixer is separate.
Version 3:
a cool logic module
sequencer
a wavetable oscillator or something else maybe
Still not near $280 yet.
Why would you consider individual FX modules to be essential to a modular system? 98% of the time those go after everything else in the chain, which means, just use existing effects. Except maybe for a delay to do Karplus-Strong type stuff, but again, that doesn't really count as "meat and potatoes."
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
Yes it could. Because I need to cover at least a fraction of my investment, here it is:wagtunes wrote:Exactly my point. This could add up to a fortune in the blink of an eye.I appreciate your thinking, and understand your reasoning. I will come up with something. It's a bit too early, there are allot of modules I need to add, allot of testing and may be beta versions. It will take time before this is released. And even after it's released, there are so many module ideas to add.
And thats not all of it BTW.
Valid reasoning.foosnark wrote:Here's my version:wagtunes wrote:Let's see how quickly this adds up to a fortune.
Version 1:
just one oscillator module
This is multiple instances of oscillators, it's multiple LFOs, and it does FM. (Assuming the system supports signal mixing; that might be a second module.) It's a great MicroBrute expander already.
Version 2:
oscillator
envelope
VCA
filter
It's already super flexible and basically complete, and it costs $80, or $100 if the mixer is separate.
Version 3:
a cool logic module
sequencer
a wavetable oscillator or something else maybe
Still not near $280 yet.
Why would you consider individual FX modules to be essential to a modular system? 98% of the time those go after everything else in the chain, which means, just use existing effects. Except maybe for a delay to do Karplus-Strong type stuff, but again, that doesn't really count as "meat and potatoes."
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
- Banned
- 10732 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
I certainly wouldnt touch it unless it came with some basic modules to start with. At the very least an osc/filter/adsr/lfo
You need a solid base to try out. If its good, users will want to expand. Its asking alot to buy what is basically an empty rack...
You need a solid base to try out. If its good, users will want to expand. Its asking alot to buy what is basically an empty rack...
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1233 posts since 31 Dec, 2008
All the modules will be included and work fully but in demo mode. Where they will produce some noise from time to time, or disallow saving, or some thing like that, just like most other synth demos do. No time limit, they will not expire (in the final release).AnX wrote:I certainly wouldnt touch it unless it came with some basic modules to start with. At the very least an osc/filter/adsr/lfo
You need a solid base to try out. If its good, users will want to expand. Its asking alot to buy what is basically an empty rack...
www.solostuff.net
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.
Advice is heavy. So don’t send it like a mountain.