Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[AnX]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

Reaktor is a bit vague.... which elements specifically? I have a ton that go from smooth as silk to rough as f**k.

[AnX]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

I and chk071 were commenting on AnX's comments. He was saying it was possible to create similar sounds on Icarus from Monark. Which is bull.

No i wasnt. Read again. I said Dune2 can sound aggressive.

[EnGee]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

Reaktor is a bit vague.... which elements specifically? I have a ton that go from smooth as silk to rough as f**k.

Do your really want me to list the synths that can sounds aggressive in Reaktor!?

Everybody is biased here damn it!

[recursive one]

Monark, Razor and Rounds may sound pretty agressive. I'd say, Monark indeed beats Virus.

[AnX]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

Reaktor is a bit vague.... which elements specifically? I have a ton that go from smooth as silk to rough as f**k.

Do your really want me to list the synths that can sounds aggressive in Reaktor!?

Everybody is biased here damn it!

No, but saying 'Reaktor' is meaningless.

[exmatproton]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

I and chk071 were commenting on AnX's comments. He was saying it was possible to create similar sounds on Icarus from Monark. Which is bull.

No i wasnt. Read again. I said Dune2 can sound aggressive.

I stand corrected

[Ingonator]

Euhh, no. Icarus's filters and overall osc quality aren't even in the same ballpark compared to monark.
Try the same synths at 88.2k or higher and play with a simple saw + high resonance filter sweep.

Icarus does not use analog modeled oscillators so the comparison of the Oscs is difficult. Icarus was also not built to be a proper analog emulation, or an emulation of a specific synth.
Anyway, i had used waveforms based on a Moog Slim Phatty combined with the "LP Butter 24dB" filter in Icarus, you could check e.g. my factory presets called "Hyper Brass IW" (Brass category/folder) for this.
To further increase the low end you could add Drive and also use the Bass boost ("DBass") and the EQ in the EQ section.

FWIW that "LP Butter 24dB" seems to be based on the 24dB LPF in Saurus and like that one seems to use zero delay feedback technology. That filter is resonant up to self-oscillation and pure self-oscillation (no Oscs used) could sound very clean there.

Some other Icarus filter modes could do self-oscillation too, mostly those with "analog" in the name (including a few of the HPF and BPF modes) but also some others. In comparison none of the Electra 2.1 filters seems to be capable of self-oscillation and in Serum only the "German LP" (as far as i was able to find in the demo version).

Yes, i know that. He was saying it could be done. I disagree with him. So you should comment to him, imho. We are on the same page here.

Not sure if "aggressive" actually means a good low end in this respect.

Anyway here is an audio demo i just created based on my "Hyper Brass IW" factory preset i had mentioned in my post here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... mo%201.mp3

This is the pure factory preset without any tweaks or exrernal FXs used. Actually only small amounts of Drive and teh EQ were used so it would have been possible to further increase teh low end in this without using external FXs.

As alraedy mentioned thsi is based on a sample from a Moog Slim Phatty and using the "LP Butter 24dB" filter in Icarus that seems to be based on tenn 24dB LPF in Saurus (which utself seems to be inspired by a Moog filter...).

I do not claim this sounds similar to Monark or a real Mini (and it was not intended to) but IMO quite analog sounding for a dedicated wavetable synth (and IMO far from sounding "thin".
I am sure it is possible to create some more "extreme" sounds in Icarus than this one in the demo (maybe i''ll give a try later) but as this is included in the factory content everyone could check this himself and further tweak it if if there is any intrest in that. You could check yourself increasing the Filter Drive/Saturation and/or the Bass Boost ("DBAss") and EQ amounts/levels.

[EnGee]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

Reaktor is a bit vague.... which elements specifically? I have a ton that go from smooth as silk to rough as f**k.

Do your really want me to list the synths that can sounds aggressive in Reaktor!?

Everybody is biased here damn it!

No, but saying 'Reaktor' is meaningless.

No, but talking to you is meaningless!

[chk071]

Aggressive for me is fast envelopes, which in connection with squelchy, and resonant filters, give a good "bang", when using small decay times. Also, a healthy amount of distortion in the filter, or, better, filter drive option, because sometimes you will prefer a clean filter. In general, a good bottom end. And oscillators, which sound pleasant, in the low, and high registers, and which sound a bit as if they had been driven themselves. Also, a sound which won't "fall apart" with fast modulation. In general, some synths can get really "wild", while others will forever stay tame, no matter what you do to them. And some can be even both, aggressive, or tame (Waldorf Largo).

[AnX]

The question wasn't which synth is better, or which is the winner, it was whether they're similarly aggressive, or not. Dune 2 or Icarus are not very aggressive synths, so much i can say. Dune 2 even less than Icarus. Regardless of "quality" or whatever. I prefer synths which are more on the aggressive side, but that is also regardless of quality, it's simple preference.

Yes and I already answered the 'question'! None of them is really aggressive as Reaktor. Even the Virus is not aggressive as Reaktor is! I believe one should choose the right tool for the specific task

Reaktor is a bit vague.... which elements specifically? I have a ton that go from smooth as silk to rough as f**k.

Do your really want me to list the synths that can sounds aggressive in Reaktor!?

Everybody is biased here damn it!

No, but saying 'Reaktor' is meaningless.

No, but talking to you is meaningless!

I think you'll find its pointless.

[recursive one]

No one remembers how it all began but now everybody hates each other. This proves again that Tone2 are evil.

[Ingonator]

Not sure if "aggressive" actually means a good low end in this respect.

Anyway here is an audio demo i just created based on my "Hyper Brass IW" factory preset i had mentioned in my post here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... mo%201.mp3

This is the pure factory preset without any tweaks or exrernal FXs used. Actually only small amounts of Drive and teh EQ were used so it would have been possible to further increase teh low end in this without using external FXs.

As alraedy mentioned this is based on a sample from a Moog Slim Phatty and using the "LP Butter 24dB" filter in Icarus that seems to be based on tenn 24dB LPF in Saurus (which utself seems to be inspired by a Moog filter...).

I do not claim this sounds similar to Monark or a real Mini (and it was not intended to) but IMO quite analog sounding for a dedicated wavetable synth (and IMO far from sounding "thin".

Here is another audio demo based on some tweaks just done on the Icarus patch in the previous demo posted above (changes to Resonance, Cutoff, filter Drive/saturation amount and the EQ settings in the EQ section):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... t%2001.mp3

FWIW the Resonance, Saturation and EQ setting are NOT at maximum in that modified patch (those are mostly around or slightly above a medium amount, the Resonance is at 57 out of 100).

[chk071]

Not sure if "aggressive" actually means a good low end in this respect.

Anyway here is an audio demo i just created based on my "Hyper Brass IW" factory preset i had mentioned in my post here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... mo%201.mp3

This is the pure factory preset without any tweaks or exrernal FXs used. Actually only small amounts of Drive and teh EQ were used so it would have been possible to further increase teh low end in this without using external FXs.

As alraedy mentioned this is based on a sample from a Moog Slim Phatty and using the "LP Butter 24dB" filter in Icarus that seems to be based on tenn 24dB LPF in Saurus (which utself seems to be inspired by a Moog filter...).

I do not claim this sounds similar to Monark or a real Mini (and it was not intended to) but IMO quite analog sounding for a dedicated wavetable synth (and IMO far from sounding "thin".

Here is another audio demo based on some tweaks just done on the Icarus patch in the previous demo posted above (changes to Resonance, Cutoff, filter Drive/saturation amount and the EQ settings in the EQ section):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... t%2001.mp3

FWIW the Resonance, Saturation and EQ setting are NOT at maximum in that modified patch.

This is IMO a good example of why Icarus is rather on the "tame", then on the "aggressive" side of things. Neither the resonance, nor the envelopes sound particularly "aggressive" to me. Try the same patch in Monark, and hear the difference.

Again, this is more than fair enough. And no "good or bad" thing. It's just that Icarus isn't very aggressive, that's all.

[recursive one]

Nice patch, I love these squelches in the attack phase, but it doesn't sound any agressive at all (idk if it was your goal). I have strange impression that this sound tries to fool me that it is thick and fat while in fact it isn't (odd description but I don't know how to put my feelings into words better).

[Ingonator]

Nice patch, I love these squelches in the attack phase, but it doesn't sound any agressive at all (idk if it was your goal). I have strange impression that this sound tries to fool me that it is thick and fat while in fact it isn't (odd description but I don't know how to put my feelings into words better).

I just did some further tewaking to the Icarus patches in the previous demos doing changes to Resonance (now at 86 of 100), Cutoff, filter saturatuion amount, EQ settings and the envelope settings. Here is an audio demo:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... t%2002.mp3

Besides using the LP Butter 24dB filter and the Moog Slim Phatty sample/waveform the patch (an the 2 previous examples too) uses 3 Oscs at different octaves and each one with the "HyperStereo 4" Unison mode.
This is a reaon why it sounds "bigger" and why it is impossiible to replicate the same patch in Monark (except maybe with modifications to the Monark Reaktor ensemble or adding certaon FXs).

Concerning the envelopes those got an adjustable slope so depending on this setting there could be huge differecnes in the resulting sounds. FWIW i used a more "exponential" behavior, not a linear one.



FWIW I already got Monark and other Minimoog based plugins and dooig proper emulations of this or other real analog synths is not really what Icarus is intended to be used for while it could sound great on it's own and it has some nice analog modeled filters.