Is Cakewalk going out of business?

[bobhva]

Cakewalk has serious customer support issues! But the product is great and I don't see them going out of business any time soon, in fact they are expanding their market by adding a version for Mac(boo Apple) and improving upon an already great product every month with their rolling updates.

[Grumbleweed]

Why do you keep updating Sonar when all you have ever done is moan about it?

If you're talking to me, it's because I have many Sonar Files that I have to use. All new files are created in Cubase.

I was talking to you.
As you must know you don't need to update anything. You stick to the version you created the files in and leave it alone in a dark corner of your PC.
It seems perverse that you'd risk updating Sonar again when you think it will "crash every time you use it" (I'm quoting you from a previous thread).

Grum.

I answered your truthfully and you respond with nothing but snarkyness. Why are you in this thread?

I'm not being snarky, I genuinely don't understand why you want to spend more money on something that causes you grief.
If your new files are made in Cubase then your old Sonar files are made in an old Sonar. Why not just leave it at that?

Grum.

Upgrading to Sonar Pro 2016 got me 3 AD drum kits for less that the half off prices at Audiodeluxe. It also gave me some nice 3rd party plugs. I try to avoid the parts that don't work. You called me perverse for that. Really strange and rude.

Sorry, you're not perverse. It turns out you're a hypocrite with an eye for a bargain.

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

[Jace-BeOS]

Sorry, you're not perverse. It turns out you're a hypocrite with an eye for a bargain.

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

Why do you care?

When users have a lot of projects in Sonar, but they're sick of Sonar, they can do a few things:

1. Keep Sonar around for existing/old projects they still need to work on, but do all new production on some other DAW.

2. Convert their projects to the new preferred DAW, archive the original Sonar projects, and (hopefully) never touch Sonar again.

I chose number 2. Plus, I moved from Windows to Mac. It took weeks of work. I output all the Sonar-only and Windows-only synth content as rendered audio. I tried to configure similar effects in Logic as much as possible, but also had to render some of that to audio too. A few of my projects had cross-platform plugins and were easier to port (the 12+ of my huge glut of free Synthedit VST plugins that I used was my biggest problem). I even made a drum kit in Logic's UltraBeat (which i find is a poor GUI) just to try to recapture the feel of a drum set in CM-505 that doesn't exist as an AudioUnit. The result was poor (I still want CM-505 for modern Mac systems; it's an excellent and straightforward drum synth, superior in ease of use to the also now discontinued replacement plugin). Much of the content I exported is now frozen audio and raw MIDI. Some of the synth parts ended up being replaced with new synths, etc, but the full editing ability of the original projects is lost in the new versions.

All the time spent on that could've been time spent on new projects on my Mac instead, but I wanted to leave Sonar (and PCs) behind and not lose all my old work. The person you're being jerky to might not want to go through all that work, spending their time working on new projects instead. So they might prefer to keep doing maintenance on Sonar to keep it useable with new hardware and OSes.

There's nothing hypocritical about being stuck maintaining hated software for old projects that require it. The investment alone is hard to walk away from. If a few materials from a Sonar upgrade can be used in the other DAW, all the better. I have six upgrades worth of Sonar "free" content left sitting around for use in other software myself.

[Grumbleweed]

Nicely put (apart from the "jerky" bit )

I suppose I don't have the same feelings towards old projects and I wouldn't carry on spending money on something I believe would crash with this much regularity:

Sonar - just about every time I try to use it
Cubase - never

If I got a mac I'd buy Logic and never look back

Grum.

[classic]

Well, now we know why it was "lifetime free updates"

Yea a lifetime free of any updates

[digitalboytn]

Well, now we know why it was "lifetime free updates"

Yea a lifetime free of any updates

[Jace-BeOS]

Nicely put (apart from the "jerky" bit )

Sorry for that wording. It seemed to me as though you were harassing the other person a bit. I was characterizing your behavior, not characterizing you.

I suppose I don't have the same feelings towards old projects

Totally understandable. I am aware that some musicians never look back. I don't empathize with that because each piece of music is a struggle of effort to me Exploring my folders of old unpublished work is like mining for new work. For example:

I resurrected a few old MIDI sequences I did in Mastertracks Pro and Cakewalk Express. My porting of Sonar projects to Logic have greatly improved a couple of them, as I used different fx and synths (and just mixed better). I've even resurrected old FastTracker II projects, creating vastly different mixes/constructions in the process of porting them to both Reason and Logic.

and I wouldn't carry on spending money on something I believe would crash with this much regularity

There is always the wish for the bugs being fixed in the next version as a lure. It took me about six versions of Sonar for me to finally realize I was wasting my money there (I stopped at 8.5). I recently, and briefly, considered Cakewalk's lifetime upgrade offer as "the last time I would need to pay for Sonar bug fixes", but... well, see my post in the lifetime free updates thread...

If I got a mac I'd buy Logic and never look back

To each his/her own I hope to never go back to Sonar myself, since I ported all my projects. But, again, that was a hell of a lot of work and compromise. It's probably easier to just keep an installation of Sonar available, but I was also abandoning the PC itself.

[incubus]

Just because someone kindly and humorously bumped my TNC post, with X1 and X3 there were quite a few updates. Just a reminder that their worst incarnation, X2, had ONE f**king UPDATE

Remember, you COULD NOT DEMO IT for quite some time until after they released it back then. So blaming people for buying the product w/o demoing isn't cut and dry. Yeah, X3 you can, and that's great, but blank statements do not apply here (unlike f....5 and arrossa (spelling?) and their troll-like insistence that it's some plot to put a bad name for their company

[vintagevibe]

Sorry, you're not perverse. It turns out you're a hypocrite with an eye for a bargain.

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

Why do you care?

When users have a lot of projects in Sonar, but they're sick of Sonar, they can do a few things:

1. Keep Sonar around for existing/old projects they still need to work on, but do all new production on some other DAW.

2. Convert their projects to the new preferred DAW, archive the original Sonar projects, and (hopefully) never touch Sonar again.

I chose number 2. Plus, I moved from Windows to Mac. It took weeks of work. I output all the Sonar-only and Windows-only synth content as rendered audio. I tried to configure similar effects in Logic as much as possible, but also had to render some of that to audio too. A few of my projects had cross-platform plugins and were easier to port (the 12+ of my huge glut of free Synthedit VST plugins that I used was my biggest problem). I even made a drum kit in Logic's UltraBeat (which i find is a poor GUI) just to try to recapture the feel of a drum set in CM-505 that doesn't exist as an AudioUnit. The result was poor (I still want CM-505 for modern Mac systems; it's an excellent and straightforward drum synth, superior in ease of use to the also now discontinued replacement plugin). Much of the content I exported is now frozen audio and raw MIDI. Some of the synth parts ended up being replaced with new synths, etc, but the full editing ability of the original projects is lost in the new versions.

All the time spent on that could've been time spent on new projects on my Mac instead, but I wanted to leave Sonar (and PCs) behind and not lose all my old work. The person you're being jerky to might not want to go through all that work, spending their time working on new projects instead. So they might prefer to keep doing maintenance on Sonar to keep it useable with new hardware and OSes.

There's nothing hypocritical about being stuck maintaining hated software for old projects that require it. The investment alone is hard to walk away from. If a few materials from a Sonar upgrade can be used in the other DAW, all the better. I have six upgrades worth of Sonar "free" content left sitting around for use in other software myself.

Thanks, Jace-BeOS, for clearly explaining this. I would never have made such an effort. I have hundreds of live performance files. When I updated I got 3 Addictive Drums Ad Packs for less than I could have bought them. I always hope they will fix things but they rarely do.

[_al_]

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

i think you're wrong there mate. people who abandon cakewalk, have no reason to click this link, unless they are like me, and just enjoy seeing this diabolical company getting bashed.
i stopped upgrading at 8.5, and have never even been close to wanting to upgrade again.

admittedly, i did make the mistake of upgrading zeta 1 to zeta 2, and was left with an unusable synth, because of a buggy waveshaper.
and if that wasnt insulting enough, when they finally fix the bug, they only give it to people who will accept online activation!

edit: actually, i see you were just talking about his posts, sorry.

[Grumbleweed]

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

i think you're wrong there mate. people who abandon cakewalk, have no reason to click this link, unless they are like me, and just enjoy seeing this diabolical company getting bashed.
i stopped upgrading at 8.5, and have never even been close to wanting to upgrade again.

admittedly, i did make the mistake of upgrading zeta 1 to zeta 2, and was left with an unusable synth, because of a buggy waveshaper.
and if that wasnt insulting enough, when they finally fix the bug, they only give it to people who will accept online activation!

edit: actually, i see you were just talking about his posts, sorry.

I'm not a tyrant! I was just picking on one person - I'm not that stupid to pick on a whole forum

Grum.

[chk071]

Well, now we know why it was "lifetime free updates"

Yea a lifetime free of any updates

Tbh, i'm pretty sure that that was a language issue, but, funny anyway.

[lfm]

They have no tech support. People, including myself, have been waiting for months with no reply. I've tried to call their main number for a customer service issue for two days now and all I get is a recording that says "All Circuits are busy." They cannot be contacted by any means. This looks bad.

They made a big fuzz some time this spring over how they now introduced Callback support, and also explained how this really would free up resources for efficient support.

- yeah, right....

So a reality test for Cakewalk maybe - they have no clue how to make support work.

But I think Mac-version of Sonar is a smart move, in a longer perspective.

Out of business - don't think so.
Doing really well - don't think so either.

I like Sonar a lot, but swapped to Cubase since it has much more headroom for what I need. Cakewalk does not listen enough for top voted feature requests in my view.
And the amount of excuses made by Cakewalk not implementing them is rediculous. It's so obvious when they think something is too much work - and now maintain both Windows and Mac platform guessing there will be even more of that.

But I hope Cakewalk will be there as competition, and maybe I switch back one day.

[incubus]

When thinking of your retort just look at the evidence: near 100% anti Sonar/Cakewalk software/forum posts in this forum and yet quietly upgrading in the background.
A hypocrite.

Grum.

i think you're wrong there mate. people who abandon cakewalk, have no reason to click this link, unless they are like me, and just enjoy seeing this diabolical company getting bashed.
i stopped upgrading at 8.5, and have never even been close to wanting to upgrade again.

admittedly, i did make the mistake of upgrading zeta 1 to zeta 2, and was left with an unusable synth, because of a buggy waveshaper.
and if that wasnt insulting enough, when they finally fix the bug, they only give it to people who will accept online activation!

edit: actually, i see you were just talking about his posts, sorry.

I'm not a tyrant! I was just picking on one person - I'm not that stupid to pick on a whole forum

Grum.

Ah, just trolling one person then? Nice.

[kmmcdonald]

I am a Sonar user, and in reading the Cakewalk forum, it seems that Cakewalk is not answering support AND sales calls. I hope that this not true. In my experiences, there is only one basic reason why a company ceases to be reachable by phone.