What can modular synths do that Reason can't?

[alexfsu]

So I've been exploring different itb modular synths like Oscillot and Reaktor Blocks and Softube Modular, and they're all very cool. But as a former Reason user, I can't help but see distinct similarities. So outside of the 'analog sound' that you get from hardware (different topic), I'd like to know what's the hoopla around these modular synths coming out, are they capable of doing anything that Reason can't? Thanks.

[wagtunes]

The problem with Reason is that it's its own thing. I can't stick it inside my Cubase DAW without using Rewire and jumping through a whole lotta hoops. Otherwise, I'd have gotten it a long time ago.

The modulars you've named, I can pull up in my DAW without Rewire and without jumping through hoops.

That's the difference and why I have Reaktor, Softube, MUX and KarmaFX just to name a few and don't have Reason.

[justin3am]

In Reason, CV and audio are handled separately. Though more REs are now using audio inputs for modulation purposes, it's still not the norm.

I don't think it's very useful to compare modular synths based on features, as it's often the interface which makes you approach them in different ways. I mean, there are of course modules which are common to many synths. Often it's not the different types of modules that makes the most difference but they way you combine/connect them. Just my $0.02.

[kokotte]

i m not a reason user, but i m not sure if reason can make audio rate modulation... , i remember reading an article about some limits range in the audio rate mod compare to reaktor

[DJ Warmonger]

If you think about "modular synth" as a synth spliced into modules and then connected back, it makes no sense whatsover. Modular has its own properties.

Audio-rate modulation and self-patching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ve3t1xJVU (crazy stuff starts at 2:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I3jo8bpfU8

Weird and unseen sequences

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Tcc91CqZg
https://youtu.be/uI5H3SXiFwo?t=32s

[justin3am]

I've done some of that kind of stuff in Reason. Feedback patches and audio rate modulation are possible in Reason just not common. Even granular patches, if you get creative with the samplers. Some RE devs have created math/logic modules, complex sequencers and source of uncertainty type cv generators. There is some pretty wild stuff.

Not to mention the fact that it's very easy to route modulation signals from Reason to audio outputs, for use with hardware modulars.

Another obstacle to complete modular freedom in Reason is the need to switch to the back of the rack to make connections. I often keep the back of the rack in view and use MIDI controllers to tweak parameters. I guess Reaktor was like that until a few years ago, so it's not such a huge obstacle.

[kmonkey]

I'd like to know what's the hoopla around these modular synths coming out, are they capable of doing anything that Reason can't? Thanks.

Sure, easy answer. Try to get workflow or sound territory of Bazille inside Reason. And good luck with that.

Your thinking is right. When you sum it up - Reason with fancy cabling and routing options is looking like a new world. But only "looking alike".

Why i am choosing other products over Reason

I can not work on 4k screen with Reason tiny modules.
I can not get even remote sound shaping tools like in other products
therefore i can not produce same outcome

Let me be clear - there are fantastic synths in Reason. And Reason is so much more then just Modular toyground.

But doing modular stuff with Reason REs and other tools is totally not on pair with competing products. Workflow maybe yes because Reason offer fantastic thinking. Sonically no...

Try to compare any FREE Reaktor block and tell me does it sound good or better then Reason modular elements.

[Synapse2k]

This is Reaktor and Clavia Nord Modular vs. Reason message. I will tell you what Reason does that Modular's can't after telling you what modular's can do. Modular's are generally preferred for specfic character the sound has and some like the sort of warped detuning they start to get when they heat up that can be emulated. Also some don't like the confines of a computer and what a computer screen can do to the eyes if too much focus is put on the monitor while designing and composing and playing. Also the price tag to modular makes people imagine that modular's have to outdo any software simply becase they're 50-1000 times more expensive than any software. I'm a software fanatic. If there is any interdetermination out there about which modular software to get the following mentions everything about http://www.propellerheads.se Reason which covers a lot of semi modular, am, fm, subtractive, sampling, wavetable, modular, generative, studio, fx, expandable, super preset bank, super sample bank bases all in one unit for a price. For exotic pitched sounds that COMPLEMENT the U-he array Tom Pritchard produces a bunch of good refills for a good price.

I own Reaktor 5 and I've used various Clavia products. Reason has multi point drawable LFO's in a rack extension that comes with more than 6000 LFO wavesforms that I think might do audio rate, and a new rack extension LFO that I think can do audio rate and ultra slow rate called Milkshake. There are various other LFO modules that including multi LFO rack extensions. I purchased a quad LFO rack extension and plan to get the drawable waveform one later on. It has tons of features. I love Reason as a companion to vst's and vsti's. Can't wait for Redrum 2 or whatever they come out with for Reason v9.5. If you own v8, which I do, it seems that the new v9 that just came out is short on features that matter at all if you already own a DAW, but for those that don't own DAW's who even want audio to MIDI and the equivelent to Cubase Expression maps + the standard chord and scale quantization and more than 1000 new solid sounds Reason v9 is something to jump on.

Reason has a knob 16 step-infinity infinitely chain able rack extension sequencer module with various cool modular style features on sale for $29 dollars right now down from $49, A wonderful $69 dollar Pulse Sequencing/euclidean/drum rack extension with scales and randomization, euclidean sequencing, step input sequencer and various arpeggiators + Haddon drum sequencers and a sequencer called Corde for sequenced chords and arpeggio’s + some of the best drum refill's like the Punch Expansive Rhythm module, etc. Reason can also do Sample & Hold and logic gating, etc, as I mentioned in another post. And it's samples and preset's have a much wider amount than Reaktor. Much much. The coolest thing it's only missing with Reason in my opinion is direct Kontakt compatibility. The only thing as I said but they won't want to add it likely. If they expanded to supporting Kontakt 6 instead of just akai discs and their standard refill format, which by the ISN'T reduced fidelity and also SF2 they would have the ultimate possible sound library. Kontakt really doesn't function as good as Reason memory/processor wise without being better audio quality.

The scripting engine for Kontakt makes it so that it's not likely it would be easy to port to Reason. But it would be so cool to have Reason 12 support Kontakt 8 or something instead of plugins, logically. It wouldn't be the right thing for loading projects extremely effieciently to port Kontakt 6 to Reason 10. Reason would be the perfect all in one above all with just the addition of Kontakt libraries in my opinion. The ultimate sound bank solution. May as well just add Battery 4 support instead of Kontakt. That would be easy. It's illogical to add VST support to such tight coding because vst is fully open ended and entirely designed for a different group of programs.

I can't help but sense that Reaktor 5 seems much worse coded than Reason for it's "surface" modules. The standard building block way of designing in Reaktor will probably always be more flawed than Reason's building block technique. Reaktor 6 is likely to be more clunky than Reason I never had a single crash in Reason when it was run standalone. Reaktor die hards love the style I understand and the schematic system is far deeper seeming than Reason if you go to the coding level but really Reason with it's own individual style can match the schematic system. I don't like the concept of Ensemble host personally. Reason projects usually load way faster than ensembles and macro switching is much more limited of course than combinator concepts that are already available in Reason. I'll never switch a Reaktor user to Reason because they like it and I'll never switch to Reaktor. So many sub labels of all labels existing I know prefer Reaktor but it's kind of like comparing graffiti or pop art or new age or the ultimate rhythm machine, etc, to Reaktor's art decco for anything I sense with Reactor or vector art or CAD splines. I can't help but like more popular stuff more than art official Spline art.

Syncopated stuff can go really deep with Reason along with well well well outdoing anything from http://www.clavia.com that ever existed. Reason sticks to legality with their drum sounds and refill's so you won't find the Elektron drum machine or the Dave Smith stuff. You have to make your own samples or import after converting to use other peoples hardware preset's. Punch, Snap, etc can be achieved through Redrum as good as with any drum machine with some Cubase VST compression or just an eq boost. Tons of different options go way beyond Reaktor in Reason so with my techniques I don't like using the internal engine to enhance drum presence. REWIRING would do it with only proper samples.

IIt would be ideal for simplifying composing for Propellerheads to have someone produce Oberheim rack extension emulations or multiple new Oberheim refills. It would be nice to have some more detuned style cool Absyth type sounds for Reason that I don't have to program into one of the myriads of synths on my own because of how I like to compose and some more really good PX7 presets, also.

Want analogous to basic CAD, CAD splines or dark drones, or art decco, or vector art for how most people use it go Reaktor. Want a future to be if Propellerheads keep going forward nearly "anything tool" including modular that isn't as slow as Reaktor with loading "ensembles" that doesn't, however, have internal code designing, go Reason. Reason works as a modular sampler, modular synth, modular sequencer, modular drum machine and generative tool if you know how to use the standard generaative modular tools. Most may want potentially any virtual analog synth with a computer interface if they know that ergonomics matter for productivity of course. 27" screen's make a difference in ways but if you heavily use computers and also make music the screen will effect vision eventually. It's sweet to get hardware and software I know, but it all depends what you want. To each their own. They now produce screens larger than 27" widescreens for PC's that work with Mac's that you can have an array of three adjacent windows with.

It's useful for anyone out there to have the right ergonomic setup and distance from the screen if they replace hardware. Fun to set it up also. Some may want something like dual 19" monitors for better eyes or even a trio of various sized monitors with one in the center and one on the left and right. My eyes have gotten worse from computing and I like to tweak and stack modules so I couldn’t see myself using hardware without a computer interface.

I like to sequence with syncopated drums in Reason instead of step sequencing or live playing and kind of just flesh out the composition as I go along usually. I've been even using pre created patterns DJ style recently but I don't use any sounds if they don't produce a synergisticly amalgamated final piece that ends up perfect. Your average sound smith doesn't know logic gating combined with sample and hold and stuff like that for generative compositions so noone should assume they can dive in and achieve the deepest programming even Reason can do. Let alone Reaktor. Reason has a basic soundset that comes with version 8 of excellent guitar, with a cool Nucleus-Soundlab refill of useful guitar not to mention the auto strumming, auto chord v2.0 guitar modules that came out yesterday, some good pads default and more good pads in rack extensions lot's of useful drum's, rex's that are passe to use because they're default that I use anyhow after modding or multi mixing, syncopation and chopping tools and bells and mallets + the wonderful Resonance Emotional Mallet soundset that is available for cheap and wonderful FM drums just a few though + tons of FM rhythmic potential with sequencing. Music is worth it with fans or no fans with how deep you can go even if you just spent the $500

I personally think the Thor synth in Reason, alone, is worth. The music tool creators are so genius. I recommend VST's, VSTi's, Cubase 8.5 + Plogue Bidule and Reason above any modular. Bidule is useful for Audio Unit conversion and modular and is a cheap alternative to Reason 9 for modular that can load any plugin and has lot's of cool features. I didn't use it in depth but it's fully modular like Reaktor, however allowing for plugin loading inside of the DAW. Reaktor doesn't load plugins and costs much more than Bidule.

Any other soft fully modular's reccomended out there you guys? The Reason tools from various producers they have in rack extension format do everything the hardware modulars do. Some of them at least, but people don't respect the sound quality (fixed rewiring or properly engineering) and miniaturization of rack's is weak to them and hardware to pc/mac/linix conversion in general. The miniaturization issue allows for total recall of all settings and full automation. It's absurd to like anything more than digital unless you like the character. Devo, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk and Front 242 and Mouse On Mars and all the pro tools r&b and rap heads do analog. Massive Attack, Aphex Twin and the Prodigy and lot's of others do digital. Nine Inch Nails and Richard Devine use tons of tools analog and digital and Brian Eno and Robert Rich use both digital and analog very tastefully. Robert Rich uses Alchemy and analog modulars amongst other things I am aware. It was claimed that the Prodigy and Massive attack used only Reason on their latest various albums. I learned Aphex Twin uses custom apps potentially.

-Sam

[kmonkey]

T Reason has multi point drawable LFO's in a rack extension that comes with more than 6000 LFO wavesforms that I think might do audio rate, and a new rack extension LFO that I think can do audio rate and ultra slow rate called Milkshake. There are various other LFO modules that including multi LFO rack extensions.

Dude if you need 6000 LFO waveforms to make music you should stop doing it. It's a fun number and i could understand you can be excited about this number. I don't see how is this different then something as "random" waveform function or draw your own - something which is practically in every software environment for decades - literally

I can't help but sense that Reaktor 5 seems much worse coded than Reason for it's "surface" modules. The standard building block way of designing in Reaktor will probably always be more flawed than Reason's building block technique. Reaktor 6 is likely to be more clunky than Reason I never had a single crash in Reason when it was run standalone.

++++

So many sub labels of all labels existing I know prefer Reaktor but it's kind of like comparing graffiti or pop art or new age or the ultimate rhythm machine, etc, to Reaktor's art decco for anything I sense with Reactor or vector art or CAD splines. I can't help but like more popular stuff more than art official Spline art.

-Sam

You did not tried reaktor or you utterly does not know what are you walking about. Reaktor surface design is limited by developer behind it. It was like that way before and in v6 it is even more improved. On top of that Reason RE SDK has so many surface limitations - let alone DSP optimizations that even the best coders around here such as u-he abandoned platform. You can read about it here. Quite a lot of amazing companies are waiting props to upgrade their SDK to normal standards so they can port their VST creations. Reasontalk carry some info about this.

Surely it is improving but please make your homework before you post something like you did above.

Actually your way of thinking is what i noted above. Reason itself is giving you so much beautiful and natural ideas even for beginners, but in reality these same ideas are limited by Reason SDK (which again is improving). But at this point sonicaly it is not on pair with some of the leading solutions. That won't stop anyone talented to make amazing music with Reason to be fair.

[whyterabbyt]

The Reason tools from various producers they have in rack extension format do everything the hardware modulars do.

No, they dont.

[Synapse2k]

I wrote almost. Facts are facts. Don't ask the net for anything but PURE LIES everyone in the world is a LIAR! They're worse than Satan himself! I know the type of things hardware modular's offer. Dangling wires that stay static on the desk if I owned one instead of lot's of saved settings. 10% as efficient as software modulars. The solution to the problem is the problem to the solution.

[whyterabbyt]

I wrote almost.

No, actually you didnt.

Facts are facts. Don't ask the net for anything but PURE LIES everyone in the world is a LIAR! They're worse than Satan himself!

Then stop being a liar.

[gentleclockdivider]

Lot's off bull shit in this thread from people who have never heard of control rate .
Reason c.V. rate is a 1/64 of the audio sample rate

Whe s.r. =44 khZ , the control rate is a low 689 hz ....imagine your c.V.sine lfo is running at 200 hz , then it will be updated around 3,44 times per cycle .
Needless to say your sine will behave like a steppy wave .
In reaktor your control rate can be whatever you wan't it to be.

I also own a nord modular g1 internal sample rate is 96khz , filter modulation can be the same as audio rate , if not , the control rate is S.R /4 = 24Khz ..which is still more then enough ...
But the same rule apllies as above , feeding an audio osc .into a control rate mod.input =means lower update cycle .
Still the nord modular pisses al over reason whe it comes down to modulation and we're talking about a 20 year old synth here .
The nord g2 does everything @96khz , the mod.inputs are dynamic .;depending on input source , except the high pass filter which only accept's a control rate input (24khz...modulation )

Analog control rate ..wel .almost the speed of light .

[justin3am]

Yes, it's true about CV resolution in Reason, but there are REs which use an audio input as a modulation source to work around that limitation. Even Thor had that ability. When using an audio input for modulation the CV update rate doesn't apply. I know that not all REs have that feature but when it's there, it provides some additional flexibility in terms of modulation and particularly at audio rate.

In any case, I don't think it's useful to focus on what Reason (or any tool) is not good at. I have a large analog modular... I use Reaktor, Max/MSP, Bazille and many other software modulars. They are awesome tools and I'm happy to use them... but they all have their own limitations. The same is true of Reason. I still use Reason (despite it's limitations) because it is a useful tool.

I'll say honestly that Reason is not the tool I use most when I want a modular approach to synthesis but I don't agree with those who say it's not usable in this context. I admit that I tend to go out of my way, to not have anything negative to say about stuff. I think that kind of perspective is sometimes necessary to balance things. Maybe I'm wrong...

[pdxindy]

I'll say honestly that Reason is not the tool I use most when I want a modular approach to synthesis but I don't agree with those who say it's not usable in this context. I admit that I tend to go out of my way, to not have anything negative to say about stuff. I think that kind of perspective is sometimes necessary to balance things. Maybe I'm wrong...

I don't see it as a negative statement to describe limitations of certain software.

Question: How do I play my multi-samples in Zebra
Answer: Zebra does not use samples
Reply: Dude, why do you gotta be so negative!