This forum is here to provide a convenient area to allow you to buy and sell software and hardware. Although primarily intended for second hand goods, developers and shops are more than welcome to post special offers / cross-grades in here too. Also, if you find any good offers on the Net why not post them in here and share the joy.

Group buys can also be planned / discussed here.

Rules:

You may not sell/trade anything that you are not legally entitled to, whether due to license restrictions, not owning the original in the case of software (cracks, warez, etc.), or any other bizarre reason that would make it illegal to sell the item.

If selling software you must obtain permission to transfer the license from the developer before advertising it for sale, failure to do so will almost definitely be in breach of the license agreement. Sample CDs and sample based instruments have notoriously restrictive license agreements so check before you try to sell.

NOTE: You may not agree with the license agreement, and you may plead that it is illegal/immoral/invalid in your country, but that's not for us to decide, if a license agreement states that you can't resell/transfer it then you can't sell it here.

Important note regarding sales in the EU

According to a 2012 judgement by the Court of Justice of the European Union: "An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet".

An official press release / summary is available here (PDF)

This states "even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

We are not in the legal profession here at KVR, but with this information you can decide what to do.

If you wish to sell something that was considered unsellable before this judgement and the "author of software" hasn't (yet?) changed their policy, we ask that you make it clear in your sale post that there is the potential that the sale / transfer process may not go smoothly (and make it clear why).

In any event, we are in no position to arbitrate between the seller, the "author of software" and / or the buyer.

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KVR takes no responsibility and can not be held liable for any sales / purchases made through this forum, you acknowledge that you do so at your own risk. However if you have any problems with a sale / purchase please let us know which member caused problems and we will take necessary action to ensure they are warned and / or banned (depending on the situation, obviously).

When you have sold the item offered for sale please ammend the topic title and add the word SOLD. These threads will then be deleted.

NOTE: In an effort to keep the content of this forum relevant, any topic that is not replied to for 30 days will be deleted automatically.

Advice:

• NEVER give your credit card information to anyone.
• Try to use a payment service such as PayPal.
• Anything else?

If anyone wants to expand upon, or improve the rules / guidelines please post below.
Last edited by Ben [KVR] on Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:23 am; edited 6 times in total

Anyone who wants to resell discoDSP plugins please read our FAQ at http://www.discodsp.com/FAQ

Edited due customer clarification/grammar.
Last edited by George on Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total

I've just ammended the rules to add:

NOTE: In an effort to keep the content of this forum relevant any topic that is not replied to for 30 days will be deleted automatically.

Can I ask what happens if an issue arises concerning two or more buyers? I would have assumed that whoever sent the personal message first (as they're clearly dated for the seller) gets first dibs, right?

If someone contends the fairness of a sale, is there some way to get proof as to who sent pms first?

In case you haven't already guessed, this just happened to me - I'm pretty confident I sent a personal message first, but the buyer won't check or tell me.

Only thing I thought when reading this was just the advice of "NEVER give anyone your credit card". That would apply more to other individuals as opposed to reputable stores that you welcome to post in this forum. Most of these stores use credit cards as the main means of payment and possibly don't use Paypal at all.

However, most people I would guess know for themselves where they'd use a credit card comfortably or not so...

Hi Squids,

It never actually got that far along - I simply personal messaged the guy saying I'd take what he was selling, and he didn't respond for a couple of days, during which time someone else posted saying they'd pm'd too. I then told that person I was first in line, but bizarrely enough, the seller gave the other guy first dibs.

Anyway, I don't really care overmuch - it's just that there's clear proof (in the date and time of the pm) as to who was first in line.

Boogooloo baby, I actually don't know what you're referring to. I was just mentioning that the good advice Ben was giving applies to individuals selling to individuals vs. with reputable on line shops where it is more common to do credit card transactions.

Oh, right - I assumed that since you replied after me, your reply was FOR me...

Is it possible for a mod to edit threads once an item is sold to move it from the first page? (Saves people from bumping live threads.) Just change the date of the last post to a day or two previously should do it. The thread stays "active" but it gives people browsing better views of the live stuff.

Ben,

Please advise users to NOT ask questions or make comments about things that are none of their business such as "Why are you selling it?" or "I wouldn't buy that!" etc,etc. The posts should have product info and price, other questions,etc should go to PM or email.

(Just trying to keep the clutter down and the compulsive posters out.)

How about these rules? (Kind of cited from another forums)

- Price requests are mandatory
- When item is sold, don't replace useful info (item name, price) with "SOLD" texts so people can check the relevant threads for reference prices for their deals concerning the same item
- Prefix or suffix the thread topic with the SOLD word instead
- Selling illegal items results in permanent ban
- Posting offtopic and such irrelevant usage results in one week ban

So all threads in this section would be deleted after 30 days automatically without any need to delete them manually. If the 30 days is too long then lower the delay to about 20 days.

Added the "Important note regarding sales in the EU" section.

I feel it's important to point out to the second-hand buyer that he has no title whatsoever under which to ask that the original software developer transfer the license from the seller to him because he has no contractual relationship with them. Only the second hand seller (the original buyer) has that.

The second-hand buyer can only ask that the second-hand seller ask the original software developer to transfer the license. If they refuse, the second-hand seller has to decide if he wants to litigate that - for the buyer, basically, since the seller has his money. The second-hand buyer is confined to the sidelines in this dispute, despite the fact that he has probably paid the purchase price.

Additionally, as stated in line 66 of the ruling, the second-hand buyer is not entitled to any more updates or maintenance releases after buying, as maintenance and updates do not relate directly to copyright but are part of a parallel contractual arrangement with the software developer which is, like all contracts, not transferable without both parties consent. The seller should also state this clearly (no right to updates).

The bottom line is that buying software the developer of which does not allow transfers is at best a gamble, not a sale. There are very, very few situations where this type of purchase would ever make any sense, mostly for end-of-life software that won't be updated anyway. In all others the buyer is probably getting screwed, because nobody in his right mind would buy an actively developed software frozen in time and with no way to update or upgrade without byuing it again.


So "will not go smoothly" is the understatement of the year. The seller should be required to show that he is able to deliver (some devs are more flexible than their EULA). If he can't show that, he is selling a dream and people will get hurt.

Actually, I think you are wrong. If the updates are part of the original license agreement, the second-hand buyer is entitled to those updates as well. After all, the new buyer becomes the regular license holder, just like the buyer of a used car becomes the rightful new owner, regardless of what the manufacturer says or wants. For instance the manufacturer cannot say that he will not repair stuff that breaks within the warranty period just because the second-hand buyer did not buy the car from the manufacturer.
That is the whole point. The first buyer can now transfer the license legally to a second buyer without requiring the software maker's consent.

Exactly!