Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

[fluffy_little_something]

[
Whether someone likes a particular color is subjective... effective gui implementation is not entirely subjective.

Some features just make the workflow faster.
Drag-n-drop modulation works better than hunting through drop down menus.
Undo/Redo is a big workflow improvement. Plenty of synths do not have undo/redo and what a pain it is after getting used to having it!
etc... There are lots of useful refinements to u-he GUI's

Yes, the workflow as such is ok, although I am not a fan of using the matrix for basic things that should have dedicated knobs.
Anyway, workflow is not GUI design, the latter I have a problem with. And no, it is not due to my monitor, it is a quality 24" display by Asus. Nor do I have such issues with Sylenth1. If my monitor were to blame, it would apply to everything I view on it. But it doesn't.
It's like with browsers for instance, things such as website symbols in the favorites bar are simply smaller in Chrome and thus harder to recognize. Tab fonts are also different.

[wagtunes]

Well, after following this Hive vs Sylenth1 thing for countless pages, I finally decided to download Hive and demo it. I had already downloaded the Sylenth1 demo a while ago and didn't like it at all.

So what about Hive?

I am 58 years old and have pretty bad eyes. Still, Hive's GUI is fine. I can read everything with no problem. I think the interface is a little cramped (more so than their other synths) but it's not terrible. The layout is easy enough to follow. Took me about 30 minutes to get comfortable with it and that's without reading the manual to find things. The space ship look of it isn't my favorite but it's cool in its way.

Okay, so why don't I like Hive as much as the other U-he synths, all of which I own and made sound libraries for? Simple. It's just too basic for me. Zebra 2 has really kind of killed it for me as far as most synths. Bazille I like because of the structure. You can do things with it that would be impossible to do with Zebra 2, like the endless random sequences that you can make with some very clever programming capabilities. Diva I bought because of the architecture as well, being able to mix and match filters and oscillators. The synth is an analog programmer's delight and the sound is amazing. Even ACE is really cool with its "any cable anywhere" capability that allows so much flexibility.

But Hive is not meant to be any of that. It's a basic synth with a supersaw, ARP and sequencer and some FX. The oscillators are very basic as are the filters. While this synth still blows away my first Moog back in the 70s, I've simply outgrown synths with such limited flexibility. I'd be bored programming this thing after about 5 hours. Same thing happened with me and ImpOSCar 2, which also sounds great but is very limited with what you can do with it. Ultimately, I've never designed a library for it and probably never will.

So you've got a synth with a nice sound that just isn't anything special, much like how I feel about Synlenth1. There is simply nothing that these synths can do that I can't do with the stuff I already have. And while I may be able to make enough sales of a sound library for Hive, especially since there are so few out there, I just can't see myself programming this thing for any length of time. I was bored after 30 minutes.

None of that takes away from what this synth is what it's meant to be. It's a quick and easy tool for getting some slick sounds that probably fit in many genres. I listened to some of the presets and they're all serviceable. So I can't knock the synth for what it is.

Like Sylenth1, however, it's just not for me.

[recursive one]

I can say that getting Sylenth should be pointless for you personally since each and every possible knob combination may already be found in someone's preset pack.

Hive is deeper that meets the eye tho.

[fluffy_little_something]

I am happy I am not a professional sound designer, else I might also consider every synth too basic that doesn't doesn't come with zillions of features. I just enjoy the good sound of a synth and couldn't care less if it is not overly complex.

[wagtunes]

I am happy I am not a professional sound designer, else I might also consider every synth too basic that doesn't doesn't come with zillions of features. I just enjoy the good sound of a synth and couldn't care less if it is not overly complex.

Which is why we have sound designers in the first place. Most people are too concerned with making music to be bothered with having to design every sound from scratch.

[fluffy_little_something]

If Sylenth1 and Hive are already too basic for you, what do you think of The Legend?

[wagtunes]

If Sylenth1 and Hive are already too basic for you, what do you think of The Legend?

From a programming aspect, I have no interest in it. Sound wise, I haven't even listened to a demo yet so I can't comment on it. I hear it sounds very good. I'm sure it probably does. But I can't see myself slaving over a 3 osc synth with a few basic waveforms. They just don't do anything for me anymore.

[chk071]

If Sylenth1 and Hive are already too basic for you, what do you think of The Legend?

From a programming aspect, I have no interest in it. Sound wise, I haven't even listened to a demo yet so I can't comment on it. I hear it sounds very good. I'm sure it probably does. But I can't see myself slaving over a 3 osc synth with a few basic waveforms. They just don't do anything for me anymore.

TBH, i have no use for the kind of sound detail presented on Legend (or Monark or Diva). To be totally honest, i prefer the digital stability, and cleanness of my soft synth, to saturation in the audio signal, filter drive, and non-linearities in the filter, bette said, stuff i don't even have control over. I have a hard time convincing myself that all that "adds" to the pleasance of the sound too. But, hey, each to his like.

[aumordia]

Nostalgia/romance are serious factors. The tech behind things like Diva is very impressive, but I always submit these things to the wife test -- can she tell the difference? If not, I'm just pleasing myself -- a little bit of that is fine, but no point getting carried away.

I think the traditional orchestra is great reference for how much sonic difference is necessary for it to matter. A lay person can hear the difference between a violin and viola. Sure, you can push a violin into viola territory, and vice versa, but if you play each to its strengths, the difference is obvious even to the untrained ear -- and if you try to play a violin like a viola (or vice versa), well, you're gonna give your listeners a bad time.

Relating this to the thread, I think some people can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to Hive's sound, because of analogue romance or Sylenth1 nostalgia or whatever. Objectively, Hive sounds great, its supersaws are terrific -- but that's a low bar to clear, and countless other synths have cleared it.

RE: design by comittee, I lol'd at that, yes it's a surefire way to produce a crap design, guaranteed. What I think actually works macroscopically is basically darwinism -- a whole bunch of synths take various guesses at the right balance of features to include/exclude, the right way to lay them out, etc. -- and eventually the most universally applicable ones bubble up to the top. It's really hard to know a winning formula up front, you have to test it.

It's weird because I'm the guy who bumped this thread back to life to say "I chose Sylenth1 over Hive," but I feel like some people are being way too hard on Hive (and others, too reflexively defensive). It's a great synth, and it wouldn't be as successful as it is if it wasn't great. It just doesn't do what Sylenth1 does well enough to unseat it, from a market standpoint. But really, why bother with that? Now that Sylenth1 is getting dev attention again, let Sylenth1 be Sylenth1. Hive is a great alternative -- and for some people, it will be a better choice -- and further, it's nice that the ecosystem has a backup in case Sylenth1 goes up in smoke.

U-he's stuff always evolves, so I'm curious to see what Hive evolves into. I think it's much better taking the Sylenth1 formula as a starting point, rather than a destination

[ATS]

I think it's safe to say right now many more people are using Sylenth than HIVE

[mcnoone]

I think it's safe to say right now many more people are using Sylenth than HIVE

How long has Sylenth been available?
How long has Hive been available?
You can't determine something like that given the time, and that we don't really know the exact copies sold by either. While Urs may have revealed comparison to synths sold. That isn't an exact number, and without knowing the exact numbers that Sylenth has sold, it really isn't needed.
Not to mention that popular doesn't always add up to better than. Particularly with a new product like Hive.

[aumordia]

lol at being personally offended that thine faire maiden synthia's honor should be besmirched by some garrulous rogue on the internet

[Urs]

I think it's safe to say right now many more people are using Sylenth than HIVE

I think it's equally safe to say right now many more people are using Hive legitimately than Sylenth.

[Urs]

It's weird because I'm the guy who bumped this thread back to life to say "I chose Sylenth1 over Hive," but I feel like some people are being way too hard on Hive (and others, too reflexively defensive).

I should thank you because I think Hive sales have gone up a few points since this thread came back up.

Ironically, my impression is the people who are hard on Hive don't really know it. I think they are notoriously nerved/annoyed by u-he as a brand, maybe because they think my presence in this forum is a weakness or something. I suppose they are happier with brands that have CEOs who couldn't be bothered talking to them. I think their opinion on Hive has nothing to do with Hive.

People who defend Hive might generally be people who actually own it, learned it and use it. I think they have a better perspective on this than those who put Hive down by principle.

[ATN69]

I own both Sylenth1 and Hive and I would not give up any of them. I design my own sounds often and am used to tweaking these 2 synths. They don't sound the same. Sure you can make similar sounds with them but in the end of the day it doesn't sound the same if you compare. So that's why I bought both.