Retro workstations as master keyboard?

[.jon]

If I was looking into a 61+ key master keyboard with nice feel and aftertouch, wouldn't arranger/workstation synths from 90's make good candidates? I've seen some go for much cheaper than new 61 key MIDI controllers. I've got separate knob+fader units, so I'm just looking for a quality keybed. I also wouldn't mind the included sounds, not for synth stuff but I'm currently missing all basic rompler sounds.

Any caveats to this idea?

What manufacturers and models would be up for this job? Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kurzweil and Kawai all seem to have produced a crazy amounts of these (and still do), if you can point me to any good resources for comparing them I'd be most grateful. Or even give a basic rundown if you're experienced with these

MIDI out and aftertouch are the primary needs, small size is plus (some of these are positively gigantic), nice sounds and stuff like Yamaha's VL synthesis are a bonus.

[voon]

Depends on where your priorities lie. All proper workstations from those eras send out MIDI: notes, aftertouch, controllers etc. Most had some masterkeyboardfunctionality, so can at least split the keyboard between two sounds/MIDI channels etc. So they all can be used as a simple input device to modern DAWs.

Some things to think about:
- A bit heavier usually due to internal soundhardware ... not that much though
- Often no USB .. you'll need a MIDI Adapter on the PC/Mac
- A good, used one may cost even more than some of the best masterkeyboards nowadays, which offer more integration/knobs/sliders etc ususally for DAW/VST control
- Check every single key/button on used hardware for problems ... noises, no function at all etc

[.jon]

Cheers!

Weight is not an issue, it's just for home use, and my interface has MIDI in/out. They are all quite big (deep), which I don't like that much. Then again, many MIDI keyboards at this class are also bigger than I'd like, with pads and sliders I already have and prefer.

I've seen an EX5 and M1 (76 keys) go for under 400e, which is about what an Arturia Keylab 61 costs, a Roland XP-80 for 260e, and then on the other end a Kawai K11 for 130e, which doesn't get you any decent MIDI keyboard.

Thorough check before buying is indeed a must, durability of the keybed is a concern so I'd prefer testing each key for issues.

Compared to something like the Keylab (which also comes with sounds), a workstation would have the added benefit of being available without the computer on.

[voon]

Sure, they provide sounds. Question is though if you're happy with them. Most workstations I know, including Korg Trinities etc provide an "acceptable" level of some short impact sounds without too much release "life" behind the intial attack ... but things like brass, strings etc are so MASSIVELY far below the quality a good orchestral library provides in both soundquality and especially "life", that I' d not even remotly think of going back. Anything from Korg/Yamaha/Alesis/Kurtzweil etc sounds extremely cheesy to me for manyof the sounds provided. The only exception are a few sounds like some aceptable pianos etc. I'd rather walk around with a normal Masterkeyboard and thin, lightweight ultraportable notebook for good soundquality. but this is a rather personal decision and it's an entirely different pricetag if it includes good libraries, kontakt and a good thin notebook of course.

[.jon]

Yep, realistic instruments have moved on, but my music doesn't involve orchestral instruments so their accuracy is not very important, I'd layer them with synths and process anyway. Acceptable pianos would be nice for rehearsing purposes. Most GM-style stuff I've listened to on Youtube are an improvement over the free soundfonts I've got, I do think the companies involved some very skilled and talented sound designers to squeeze that much quality from the limited hardware. Anyway, the keyboard is my primary interest, and I'd love to get testing some of the units. Judging by internet comments, some are indeed really good, these were meant for real players.

Many of the current bells & whistles MIDI keyboards fall short on this aspect, and the really good ones with 76 keys are almost all hammer-action which I don't want- and very expensive.

[EvilDragon]

Kurzweil is IMHO the best MIDI performance controller out there. PC3 is soooo flexible in Setup mode. I'd recommend it.

[voon]

I think Kurzweil was a bit known for good sounding piano back in the era, i.e. this kind http://www.vintagesynth.com/kurzweil/k2000.php ... doesn't mean others can't, I just don't know them much Of course, most pure digital pianos sound fairly good, but they often lack in masterkeyboard functionality etc. Maybe an older Alesis NanoPiano plus any keyboard is something for you. I have the impression you'd like to find a fairly cheap/affordable solution, not an actual 3000 USD harwdare workstation? There's so many old, but good beasts ... Yamahas SY99, close to anything from Korg, Rolands older beasts, etc. A lot of fun are virtual analogs with tons of knobs. if those can also send out normal midi CC messages, you can also use them to control VST parameters, which I find very important for lively instruments.

[.jon]

Yeah I'm looking at older models, say from the 90s. A 2008 Kurzweil isn't exactly retro yet, and commands still a hefty price tag. SY99 is pretty close to the target, very nice suggestion!

I have three small controller units with pads, knobs and faders, which I use to control VST parameters. One of them, a Nanokontrol is small enough to sit on a workstation, they all seem to have plenty of empty space on top.

Katsunori Ujiee's synth demos of these monsters are super fun to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHut1_F4eI

[voon]

Yeah I know him ...sadly I know no japanese, but he's really good at demoing these beasts. The SY99 is a fantastic workstation, easily on eof the best back then .. definitly consider it, if you look for 90ies machines. The SY77 is similar .. less ROM and no sample load, but same engine.

There's so many classics back then .. Korgs M1 and Rolands D50 are of course Icons with cult status ... with according used price points. Korgs T-Series also works and if you want something weird, the Korg Wavestation. Then theres the Korg Trinity with the monophonic analog upgrade ("Plus") or the later Triton. The's the 01/W series and so on ... they're all pretty good. I still own a Trinity Plus myself. Or ROlands JP-8000, because direct control through knobs and sldiers is always TONS more fun than having to go through layers of menus. Of course thats more of a VA, not classical workstation. Avoid some stuff .. Rolands D70 has absolutly nothing on the older D50 (the same goes for the U-Series, which the D70 is sort of the topend of).