Midi clock and Reaktor Plugin

[eagle-patriot]

So, I'm using a Reaktor 6 Ensemble (Lurker from the factory library) that contains sequencers that only run when the plugin receives a midi clock signal. The sounds generated by the sequencers are fed into a delay circuit in Reaktor before Tracktion gets the signal. When the clock signal stops, the sequencers stop generating sounds, but the output from the delay effect continues until it fades away. In Tracktion, as far as I can tell, that clock signal is only present while Tracktion is in playback or record/overdub mode. As soon as you stop Tracktion, the clock signal stops. This produces a nice effect where the delay source cuts off, but the delay slowly decays.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to easily capture this effect, as any rendering action I take stops rendering and stops the midi clock at the same time, losing the decay. Is there a way to cut off the clock source to the plugin before the end of my marked render area so that I can render this effect? I figure I can force the issue by stripping the delay circuit from my Reaktor Ensemble and rendering the dry source then adding the effect later in Tracktion, but thought I should ask in case there's an easier way I'm not seeing.

Thanks,
Pat

[whyterabbyt]

Why not just extend your marked area with some silence?

[eagle-patriot]

Because while the silence is "playing" (or rendering), the sequencers continue to generate source for the delay, and the decay effect never gets captured. I presume this is because midi clock is generated the whole time whether or not there is other audio present.

[eagle-patriot]

Perhaps I should add that the ensemble does not respond to midi notes at all. It only generates source (via the sequencers) when midi clock is present. Once the clock goes away, i.e. Tracktion is stopped, the delay can decay now that its source is cut. Unfortunately, since Tracktion is stopped, that decay cannot be captured and recorded (or rendered).

[Peter Widdicombe]

How does the reactor get it's midi clock signal - is it a plugin, or extermal midi? There are some MIDI tools out there that can play with MIDI "things", so inserting that in the the midi track might be able to "silence" reactor, or send a volume change to zero ?

[fromwithin]

Is the delay a separate instrument in Tracktion to the sequencer?

If so you could setup automation on the sequencer volume and just silence it at the right moment. Tracktion will continue to play, the delay will continue to sound.

[eagle-patriot]

How does the reactor get it's midi clock signal - is it a plugin, or extermal midi?

It's a plugin hosted in Tracktion. It gets its clock signal from Tracktion. You may be on to something though. I haven't had the need to dive into the deep end of MIDI implementations yet, but Reaktor may have tools with which to deal with this internally...

There are some MIDI tools out there that can play with MIDI "things"

Happen to know what these tools are? If I can insert something in front of the Reaktor plugin, I may be able to deprive Reaktor of clock while the track continues. If something like this exists, it may be the cleanest thing to use in this context I think.

Is the delay a separate instrument in Tracktion to the sequencer?

No, the sequencer, delay, and all kinds of other stuff are bundled up in the Ensemble which is hosted in the Reaktor Player VST plugin which itself is hosted in Tracktion. One solution I considered involved breaking them apart and rendering the dry signal to an audio track before applying the delay. It would definitely work, except that it feels overly fussy to accomplish.

[levendis]

Hi eagle-patriot,

I've made an ensemble for you that'll achieve your request. Pictured below is the macro where clock events are supplied to the rest of Lurker. All that needed to be done was to add a switch. The switch, labelled "Bypass Clock", is visible on the panel and just needs a left-click to toggle its state. The states being, 0) sever the clock's connection (unlit), 1) connect the clock (lit). The switch's default state allows transmission of the clock. You can have host playback enabled and when the switch is off Lurker's sequencers stop.

I hope that this provides the behaviour that you require.

Lurker (with clock control) (preview).PNG

[lay it prodctions]

If you want to capture the effect on the fly
Record that track to another with the end marker a few bars past the stop point. This shall work fine for getting the tail in.

[eagle-patriot]

Thanks Levendis! That looks like it should work for me. I'll give that a shot when I get a chance later and report back to this thread. As a future exercise, I will see about trying to automate this behavior in Tracktion for the purposes of using the render command.

[levendis]

My pleasure, eagle-patriot.

Here's a zip containing a T7 project and an associated Reaktor ensemble:
Lurker (Reaktor ensemble in T7) clock control
I wasn't sure if the ensemble would load if I used Tracktion's archive project facility, hence the zip.

You'll see that there's an automation lane controlling the clock bypass switch.
Play through the looped region and watch/hear Lurker's behaviour.
Unfortunately, when bypass is on, playback of the loaded sample doesn't pause, rather it plays 'til the end. I've set it up so that Lurker's sampler loops a small portion toward the start, when the clock is enabled but, as mentioned, plays from that loop's end to the sample end, when the clock stops.

It's a cool effect, the one you sought. The behaviour is like a modulation freeze.

[eagle-patriot]

Wow Levendis, thanks for all the work on this. I'm sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I've been pulling 12-hour shifts at work since I started the thread. This has been an interesting and enlightening exercise. Here's what I discovered after messing with the clock source for Lurker:

Once, I inserted the switch as illustrated in Levendis' original response, I soon realized that Lurker required the clock in order to keep the tempo-based delay time. Once deprived of clock via the switch, Lurker just continued to produce whatever sample the delay was currently playing indefinitely. It looks like Levendis discovered this same behavior while making his Tracktion project proof-of-concept solution above.

As I played around with automation more, I found a simple and easy solution to produce the effect I wanted without messing with the clock source. Ultimately, I found that if I automate and fade out the sequencer output level (the "out" knob on the far right just under the sequencer tracks), it would cut the delay source and allow the delay to decay as long as I extended my in/out markers to incorporate the desired decay time. Seems so simple in hindsight, but sometimes I don't think to turn all the knobs.

This does bring up a good question that I will have to think about which is what is Lurker's clock source when I stop Tracktion, Lurker's sequencers stop, but the delay continues to decay on tempo? I'm wondering if a MIDI stop is transmitted at this point to stop the sequencers while clock continues to be supplied in order to allow the delay to finish it's work. It might be fun to track down some of these MIDI tools to patch in line with the plugin to analyze what is happening. I think it's important to understand some of the niggling details of implementation when you want to get predictable results.

If anyone has a suggestion for the MIDI tools referred to in the thread above, please share them.

Thanks,
Pat

[fromwithin]

As I played around with automation more, I found a simple and easy solution to produce the effect I wanted without messing with the clock source. Ultimately, I found that if I automate and fade out the sequencer output level (the "out" knob on the far right just under the sequencer tracks), it would cut the delay source and allow the delay to decay as long as I extended my in/out markers to incorporate the desired decay time. Seems so simple in hindsight, but sometimes I don't think to turn all the knobs.

Er....

Is the delay a separate instrument in Tracktion to the sequencer?

If so you could setup automation on the sequencer volume and just silence it at the right moment. Tracktion will continue to play, the delay will continue to sound.