Roli Seaboard RISE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

tapper mike wrote: Have you played a stringed instrument? Vibrato is created by "wiggling" the string in an out of tune. I much prefer vibrato on the linnstrument as it doesn't operate like a modulation wheel.
I play guitar. I wrote that part poorly. I was trying to suggest that both products in their next iterations should work on refining the balance between x-axis modulation and tuning. Like bending into a note, etc. Or I guess I could just improve my technique. :lol:

I find both products are extremely satisfying for vibrato. I quite like the give on the Rise, but vibrato seems to be a bit easier on the Linnstrument.

Post

tapper mike wrote: Have you played a stringed instrument? Vibrato is created by "wiggling" the string in an out of tune. I much prefer vibrato on the linnstrument as it doesn't operate like a modulation wheel.
Yeah I do, that's why I prefer to make vibrato using AT set to slight pitch bends and wiggle the keys rather than using modulation wheel or some other mod or a fake vibrato effect - feels more realistic and controllable and also has that organic touch that makes for slight variation.

Post

jabe wrote:Or foot pedals.
Try to play straight eights for some measures - might hurt after a while unless you are a drummer with double bass abs. Also, most pedals don't have springs, they are designed to stay in the position you set them to. Tapping your finger on a key requires less force and is more accurate.
Cinebient wrote: Of course there are software tools where you can build your own controller to your likings....sadly they lack tactile feedback then.
Software isn't the issue here, as you say, MIDI FX can do a lot. There are just not enough controllers!

Post

Chick Sangria wrote:
jabe wrote:Or foot pedals.
Try to play straight eights for some measures - might hurt after a while unless you are a drummer with double bass abs. Also, most pedals don't have springs, they are designed to stay in the position you set them to. Tapping your finger on a key requires less force and is more accurate.
Cinebient wrote: Of course there are software tools where you can build your own controller to your likings....sadly they lack tactile feedback then.
Software isn't the issue here, as you say, MIDI FX can do a lot. There are just not enough controllers!
I'm sure you're right. I was thinking of piano pedals, since they leave both hands free.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.

Post

deastman wrote:I really think it's the wrong approach to pit these devices against each other in a death match. All of them are great and a huge step up in terms of expressive playing. We should be embracing the diversity of options instead of trying to prove that our personal choice is the best one. I understand that these are all pricey devices, and it isn't an easy choice to make. But I don't think there is really a wrong choice to be made at this point.

Roger Linn owns a Seaboard. Just saying.

I would also say that the Continuum is more or less in the same category as the Seaboard.
+1 - they are all very different, not better/worst... they open different doors.

I think perhaps the biggest issue is many don't have an opportunity to get their hands on more than one (if they are lucky) of these controllers... and judging something that is all about hands on expression by youtube videos or specifications, is frankly doomed to 'miss the point'.

the ones I own (soundplane/eigenharps) or have tried (continuum), are nothing like what I expected initially, and the more time you spend with them the more they open up into something new.

as i say, its a pity more of these controllers are 'out in the wild', so more (potential) players could try them out - but I guess many are still fairly 'boutique'

Post

While it may seem unfair to compare them as they are all good and purposely different, most people only have so much money and space and so are only going to buy one. When two or more products are battling for the same dollars/euros they're going to get compared no matter how different they are.

Post

peter_neo wrote:
tapper mike wrote: Have you played a stringed instrument? Vibrato is created by "wiggling" the string in an out of tune. I much prefer vibrato on the linnstrument as it doesn't operate like a modulation wheel.
I play guitar. I wrote that part poorly. I was trying to suggest that both products in their next iterations should work on refining the balance between x-axis modulation and tuning. Like bending into a note, etc. Or I guess I could just improve my technique. :lol:

I find both products are extremely satisfying for vibrato. I quite like the give on the Rise, but vibrato seems to be a bit easier on the Linnstrument.
With the linnstrument you can make adjustments to the pitch bend degree as well as the note correction. It's an either or with note correction off as you have to precisely center your notes which isn't always possible.
The other thing about vibrato is the "swell" trying to cut a diagonal vibrato to pick up both the bend motion and the volume variation could be a struggle. It also can be a struggle if you try to use pressure response as a means to control swell. I've dabbled with this a bit myself. I haven't really spent enough time to correlate technique and sensitivity settings.

Mostly when I play the linnstrument I'm more into harmony and counterpoint. Chord and melody simultaneously or bass melody stuff. Like a jazz organist would do.
Synapse Audio Dune 3 I'm in love

Post

aMUSEd wrote: I just find - because the whole approach to aftertouch is based on how hard you press the rubber keys - that in practice it's impossible to distinguish from velocity because unlike with a traditional keyboard the only way it can sense velocity is also by how hard you strike the keys. This means when I'm playing with AT turned on it's very hard not to trigger it and even harder to control the amount in a usable way. With a traditional keyboard there is no way to confuse the 2 things because velocity is based on how fast you strike the keys and AT on pressing down after striking the keys so they are very different gestures.

Not sure how the Rise handles this, it's also touch based so maybe this is also an issue but not tried one? However with the softer and larger keys there's more scope for using different gestures - with the QuNexus the keys are too hard and tiny for that (if they updated the editor to allow for configuring poly AT to tilt that might work but the other problem is they just don't update their stuff - I asked for this when I bought it years ago and there have been zero updates to the editor).
The Rise has this issue too. To compensate for this I use a M4L object called "AT Scaler." Basically what it does is truncates the aftertouch range so anything under a certain threshold gets tossed out and the rest of the range scales over what's left. With some smoothing, I assume. It works well. I got it when I had a Push and it was invaluable with that one. Now, why the Roli dashboard doesn't allow for this is beyond stupid. I'll fully admit to that. Oddly, on the Equator plug in, you can give the "press" parameter a logarithmic curve that makes it work really nicely.

I'll also admit that when used with my hardware instruments... the results aren't great. I imagine the only one that'll really work correctly is my dual Tetra set up where I can configure it to behave like 8 monophonic instruments all on the same patch. I'll admit I haven't dived into that yet. I'm still having too much fun just messing about with Equator. I'm not tossing my Remote 61 out the window any time soon. I'm viewing the Rise/Equator as it's own (mostly) self contained instrument, though I do own a number of other MPE enabled plug ins like Omnisphere 2, Falcon and Aalto. I briefly tried setting up Omnisphere... and I had to kind of go rouge to get it working [edit: fixed problem due to user error :dog: ]. Part of the problem is I'm using Live, which seems to hate this type of thing.

What it comes down to is this: The world isn't quite ready for these things. Roli's answer was to make their own world. It's not perfect, but to me the benefits outweigh the shortcomings.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

This may hark back to the mention of competition, but I wonder to what extent a new instrument has to escape the clutches of a single manufacturer to become a standard and real new instrument. It's like the difference between a new species and an evolved existing one. A guitar with pickups isn't that much different to an acoustic one. Then again, many brass instruments are basically similar. Anyone with the know-how could make a violin or piano or guitar or synthesizer, but Roli must have a lorryload of patents on their Seaboards, and that might prevent anyone else running with the idea. There must also be a finite number of ways the human body can play notes on whatever new instruments appear, although such ways as exist are often common to ranges of instruments.

I've no idea.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.

Post

Roli is leading the charge for the widespread adoption of multitouch controllers. They are reaching out and collaborating with their competition to establish the MPE standard. The premise is that having a single standard encourages more development, and that the more of these controllers that exist out in the world, the better for all of the companies involved. It is a friendly competition, and each developer has their own unique take on the technology so far. I'm not seeing any evidence of stifled competiton... quite the contrary.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post

zerocrossing wrote: What it comes down to is this: The world isn't quite ready for these things. Roli's answer was to make their own world. It's not perfect, but to me the benefits outweigh the shortcomings.
This describes exactly how I feel about Roli and the Seaboard.

I use Ableton as well and for those who haven't had the joy of setting up Equator in Ableton...

Image

I'm really hoping Live 10 supports MPE in a meaningful way. My more unrealistic dream is a Push 3 with MPE capabilities. :hyper:

Post

jabe wrote:This may hark back to the mention of competition, but I wonder to what extent a new instrument has to escape the clutches of a single manufacturer to become a standard and real new instrument. It's like the difference between a new species and an evolved existing one. A guitar with pickups isn't that much different to an acoustic one. Then again, many brass instruments are basically similar. Anyone with the know-how could make a violin or piano or guitar or synthesizer, but Roli must have a lorryload of patents on their Seaboards, and that might prevent anyone else running with the idea. There must also be a finite number of ways the human body can play notes on whatever new instruments appear, although such ways as exist are often common to ranges of instruments.

I've no idea.
I'm willing to take your thoughts a step further and say that any instrument without multiple manufacturers producing a similar product will never be a standard. C'mon Keith McMillen! Roli needs some competition! Somebody give me 61 keys! 70+ keys and foldable!
deastman wrote:Roli is leading the charge for the widespread adoption of multitouch controllers. They are reaching out and collaborating with their competition to establish the MPE standard. The premise is that having a single standard encourages more development, and that the more of these controllers that exist out in the world, the better for all of the companies involved. It is a friendly competition, and each developer has their own unique take on the technology so far. I'm not seeing any evidence of stifled competiton... quite the contrary.
I agree with all of this. Roli seems like a great company with a exciting product. I just wish there was another company making a MPE keyboard as well.

If we look at the software, Bitwig, a relatively new DAW, is included with a Seaboard and Linnstrument purchase. Ableton must be :x or at least :box:. Hopefully, this pushes Ableton to support MPE. Roli doesn't really have to consider anyone else when developing their product and that's a big negative to me. I admit it's not really a fault of Roli's though.

Post

The Roli software is using Julian Storer's JUCE code, so that at least connects it to Tracktion and others that do likewise.

I'm pleased to hear Roli is considering the wider picture. It can only help.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.

Post

It's likely to be a long time before I can afford a Roli keyboard. Perhaps someone could reassure me about one of my initial concerns. I wonder how durable the rubbery? plasticky? covering of the keys is. Will it last decades or centuries? Is it guaranteed? Thanks.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.

Post

jabe wrote:It's likely to be a long time before I can afford a Roli keyboard. Perhaps someone could reassure me about one of my initial concerns. I wonder how durable the rubbery? plasticky? covering of the keys is. Will it last decades or centuries? Is it guaranteed? Thanks.
I presume that one could get the surface replaced if necessary. In practice, you probably aren't going to be worrying about it a century from now, and the hardware will fail decades from now, just like everything else you currently use. But you won't care, because you'll want to upgrade to an Apple Linnboardenharp 5 anyway.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”