Voxengo Marquis Compressor 2 universal compressor plugin released
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4021 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Dry/wet mix control in compressors is over-rated and redundant. From math point of view, the Knee control is equivalent to dry/wet mix control. E.g. Ratio of 4:1 with dry/mix 50% is virtually the same as Ratio of 2:1 in the first place.jantex wrote:One more request please to Aleksey which would make this compressor simply perfect: DRY/WET mix :):) pleeease
Last edited by Aleksey Vaneev on Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 5818 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
That's now how math worksAleksey Vaneev wrote:Dry/wet mix control in compressors is over-rated and redundant. From math point of view, the Knee control is equivalent to dry/wet mix control. E.g. Knee of 4:1 with dry/mix 50% is virtually the same as Knee of 2:1 in the first place.jantex wrote:One more request please to Aleksey which would make this compressor simply perfect: DRY/WET mix :):) pleeease
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4021 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Well, yes. For example, at Ratio 4:1 compressor reaches gain factor of 0.5. If you apply wet/dry mix of 50% to it, it effectively becomes gain factor 0.75. At the same time at Ratio 2:1 the gain factor will be 0.75 in the first place..jon wrote:That's now how math worksAleksey Vaneev wrote:Dry/wet mix control in compressors is over-rated and redundant. From math point of view, the Knee control is equivalent to dry/wet mix control. E.g. Ratio of 4:1 with dry/mix 50% is virtually the same as Ratio of 2:1 in the first place.jantex wrote:One more request please to Aleksey which would make this compressor simply perfect: DRY/WET mix :):) pleeease
I do not say the result is bit-to-bit identical (attack/release curves may be slightly different), but as long as gain factor is considered, it is equivalent.
Last edited by Aleksey Vaneev on Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 5818 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4021 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
out=comp*(1-drymix)+in*(drymix), drymix in the range 0 to 1..jon wrote:Maybe you don't understand what wet/dry mix means?
The dry/wet mix control may be very useful if compressor offers only discrete Ratio values like 2:1,4:1,10:1. But if compressor's Ratio is arbitrary like in Marquis Compressor, the dry/wet control is not as useful. There is difference in curves when dry/wet is adjusted in comparison to Ratio adjustments, but this difference is of "coloration" type.
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- KVRAF
- 5818 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Sorry, you were actually just using "knee" when talking about compression ratio, just a typo I guess.
Anyway, we agree that wet/dry isn't the same in either knee or ratio case. I think a dry/mix control therefore adds to versatility of a compressor.
Anyway, we agree that wet/dry isn't the same in either knee or ratio case. I think a dry/mix control therefore adds to versatility of a compressor.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4021 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Yes, sorry, I've mixed up words Knee and Ratio. I was talking about Ratio..jon wrote:Sorry, you were actually just using "knee" when talking about compression ratio, just a typo I guess.
Anyway, we agree that wet/dry isn't the same in either knee or ratio case. I think a dry/mix control therefore adds to versatility of a compressor.
Dry/mix does add versatility, but in my opinion it also adds a bit of complexity since dry/mix also acts as a kind of non-linear "limitation" to the compression gain factor. For example, if gain factor reaches a considerable value of 0.1, with dry/mix at 50% the gain factor will turn into moderate 0.55. I myself perceive this as quite counter-intuitive.
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- KVRAF
- 3368 posts since 2 Oct, 2004
No need to be snarky pal. You're talking to someone who's been making compressor plugins for years. Of course he knows what he's talking about..jon wrote:Maybe you don't understand what wet/dry mix means?
You can use your DAW to set up any parallel compression. For any other cases as an insert careful usage of your compression settings will do the trick.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
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- KVRist
- 109 posts since 25 Apr, 2009
Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Yes, sorry, I've mixed up words Knee and Ratio. I was talking about Ratio..jon wrote:Sorry, you were actually just using "knee" when talking about compression ratio, just a typo I guess.
Anyway, we agree that wet/dry isn't the same in either knee or ratio case. I think a dry/mix control therefore adds to versatility of a compressor.
Dry/mix does add versatility, but in my opinion it also adds a bit of complexity since dry/mix also acts as a kind of non-linear "limitation" to the compression gain factor. For example, if gain factor reaches a considerable value of 0.1, with dry/mix at 50% the gain factor will turn into moderate 0.55. I myself perceive this as quite counter-intuitive.
But to be honest, I really don't consider Mix control to be any serious complexity for the user. I bought Marquis Compressor and it is great, but I could definitely see it being my bread and butter comp for everything if it included this missing feature, that's why I have a request for one
- KVRAF
- 7624 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA
lol at .jon you have no idea how outgunned you are do you?
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
- KVRAF
- 10359 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
I think a wet/dry control is actually the opposite of "complexity". It's something that makes compressors really intuitive and easy to use for a lot of users. Tweaking it aggressively to sound the way you want it, then blending it in.
I suspect this is the reason why wet/dry controls are so popular right now.
Technically there are no huge differences in tweaking the ratio but it's worth mentioning that the transfer function is not entirely the same. There are bound to be a few changes as seen from the math.. however these differences are not large.. which is why I stand by my original point. It's just a very intuitive way of working.
Cheers!
bManic
I suspect this is the reason why wet/dry controls are so popular right now.
Technically there are no huge differences in tweaking the ratio but it's worth mentioning that the transfer function is not entirely the same. There are bound to be a few changes as seen from the math.. however these differences are not large.. which is why I stand by my original point. It's just a very intuitive way of working.
Cheers!
bManic
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
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- KVRAF
- 5818 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Then again, I really wasn't, (knee isn't the same as dry/wet in any maths, and neither are ratio and dry/wet) but even a simple thing like this seems to be completely above your capacity.ATS wrote:lol at .jon you have no idea how outgunned you are do you?
I apologize to Aleksey for being so snarky though, that was unnecessary.
The dry/wet would probably work better separate from the compressor's input gain control.Dry/mix does add versatility, but in my opinion it also adds a bit of complexity since dry/mix also acts as a kind of non-linear "limitation" to the compression gain factor. For example, if gain factor reaches a considerable value of 0.1, with dry/mix at 50% the gain factor will turn into moderate 0.55. I myself perceive this as quite counter-intuitive.
Yes I know this can be done via a parallel chain, but having it in the plugin is just easier and faster when you need it.
Anyway, back to demoing Marquis and Crunchessor! (My current DAW, Live, makes setting up parallel chains trivial)
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- KVRist
- 109 posts since 25 Apr, 2009
I agree 100%. Hope Aleksey might listen to us and implement such a simple feature that he finds overrated while I find it very intuitive on the other hand.bmanic wrote:I think a wet/dry control is actually the opposite of "complexity". It's something that makes compressors really intuitive and easy to use for a lot of users. Tweaking it aggressively to sound the way you want it, then blending it in.
I suspect this is the reason why wet/dry controls are so popular right now.
Technically there are no huge differences in tweaking the ratio but it's worth mentioning that the transfer function is not entirely the same. There are bound to be a few changes as seen from the math.. however these differences are not large.. which is why I stand by my original point. It's just a very intuitive way of working.
Cheers!
bManic
- KVRAF
- 2281 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from Doritos Land where no goblins are allowed
The lack of dry/wet control is the reason why I did not purchase this plugin. So +1 for this feature request.
Please don’t read the above post. It’s a stupid one. Simply pass.