KVR Audio

GeoffC · Post by **GeoffC** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:15 pm

I am looking for a keyboard/controller to speed up my workflow. I have narrowed my options to an Akai Advance or Novation Impulse.

I am mainly working in Cakewalk Sonar using VST instruments so transport controls and plugin parameter controls are important to me.

What are your thoughts on these two? Does the mapping software bundled with them have any problems?

Thanks,
Geoff

plopseaw · Post by **plopseaw** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:22 pm

Geoff,

I bought the Akai Advance 61. Hardware wise its nice but software wise it doesn't work properly (see Akai forum topic like VIP crashes on changing preset or support for Arturia or hangs on boot up to name a few). Also Akai seem to treat it like abandon ware. It has some serious problems which haven't been fixed in over half a year. 600 Euro's here makes the software a huge premium over a regular keyboard with same features but in this case the VIP software doesn't work very well.

If your using NI I would recommend Komplete or better if you are using Ableton get Push 2 (its amazing what that can do)

Hopefully helpful

GeoffC · Post by **GeoffC** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:15 pm

Thanks plopseaw. What DAW are you using and how long ago was it you tried the VIP software? I noticed a lot of the crashing messages I read on the Akai forum are from FL Studio. There was a VIP 2.1 update three months ago that claims to have fixed some stability issues.

The NI Komplete S Keyboards look great but they are designed specifically to work within the NI software. I am using Cakewalk Sonar and have read that the NI keyboards don't fully integrate with that DAW in regards to track switching and alike. Though if I can get productivity and a nice workflow from the NI suite then I may investigate that further.

What I am using now is a Yamaha digital piano with MIDI but that is becoming very impracticable having to move between the computer and the keyboard when I'm trying to find that sound I need. The Advanced sounds like it solves that problem, if it works correctly.

Geoff

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:48 am

I took forever, but with the latest VIP update, lots of issues have been corrected. Mine doesn't crash nearly as much as before. Still, I miss some new plugin maps, like Arturia v5 and Keyscape. I hope we will see more, but they're not exactly quick in making those.
I'm not using the Advance as much as I wanted to since many plugins are simply too advanced to fully makes sense in the VIP wrapper. All my kontakt related stuff never goes in VIP as it's too fiddly to edit there.
The advance is for preset auditioning purposes for NI's synths and many of the "classics" but if you just use it for preset changing, it's a rather expensive device.
Had I known NI would do a Kontrol 88, I'd gone for that and replaced my old 88 key Roland controller as well.

GeoffC · Post by **GeoffC** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:18 am

It seem like you are all hinting towards NI hardware

. I'm going to consider putting the S Kontrol back into the mix. I've read enough to not be sure about a VIP keyboard. There are other controllers that interact with the VIP software such as the Alesis VX49 but as K-Bee said it is still crashing just not "nearly as much as before" which is still an issue I don't want to deal with. I have this picture in my head right now: The buzz of a song idea hits me, I have the tune in my head, rush to get the computer and DAW fired up and I've less than a min or two to bang it out before the idea vanished forever. Then crash! the computer hangs. I don't want to go there and it sounds like the Advance controller and VIP software may just put me in that place I hate going.

The main reason I haven't been considering NI heavily is because it is completely dedicated to Komplete instruments and NI synths. But then again I already have Kontakt Player and a few instruments so going the NI road may be ok. The standard of those instruments is fantastic. Have any of you had major or unusual crash issues with the NI integration?

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:27 am

I doubt you'll find a piece of software that never crash at all. I'm yet to do that. Even Microsoft Word has crashed on me!

I f you have a tune in your head all of a sudden, I really recommend humming it and record it with your cellphone. I'm not kidding. It has helped me a lot, since I alkways have some weird melody or bass line in my head

That said, Advance/VIP has caused me a lot of trouble but the issues nowadays are nothing to worry much about. And I even use FL Studio which is said to give the most trouble with VIP.
It's like the technical and workflow-minded intentions are there but the technology isn't quite there yet. Akai/VIP want too much at a time and it gets really complicated because of that. I'd be surprised if NI aren't suffering by that too, since it's just about the same idea they work with.
I mentioned opting for the Kontrol 88 only because I need 88 keys for piano stuff. The Kontrol 88 weren't announced until after I got the Advance. Today I would have considered the Kontrol because of the number of keys and have saved some room at the same time.

plopseaw · Post by **plopseaw** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:34 pm

I used it on Live and Bitwig. The 2.1 update was mainly to support the launch of a new keyboard model but didn't actually address any of the bugs. Some month ago they had 2.1.1 which was supposed to fix the 'crash on changing preset' bug. Seems like this worked for Dune but other plugins like Spire still crash it everytime. I reported it but got a 'Ok well look into that' but nothing since and I don't expect them to fix it. Based on their update speed any new plugin/update which doesn't work you can expect 6-12 months for them to fix (if at all).

NI can be slow to add features but at least the software seems tested unlike Akai and if there is a critical bug they are quick to fix it. Aka have only caused me frustration and time wasted which could be spent on better things.

GeoffC · Post by **GeoffC** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:59 am

Thanks plopseaw. I'm getting further and further away from my initial thoughts if getting the Akia. I haven't heard anybody come out and put it forward as their main go to key controller but NI seems to have a large and proud user base putting their stuff at the front of their go to gear. I was hoping to see a lot more praise for the Advance keyboards amongst musicians.

bassistrick · Post by **bassistrick** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:54 pm

I would be very cautious of Akai or any of the InMusic brands these days. I purchased an M-Audio trigger finger which uses special software, not too unlike VIP, and it seems to be basically abandonware at this point. Recurring issues that never get fixed, no software updates, etc.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:06 am

Sadly you are right. Updates aren't exactly plentiful and if you go to the AKAI forum you'll soon realize that the support people don't care much about their customers. Basically, they just give the same standard replies to anything.
Looks like NI won the battle of the new generation of "integrate everything" style controllers, and I would definitely have taken the NI route had I been on the market today.
I really can't figure out whether I want to part with the Advance or not. If I sell it, I also loose all the AIR instruments that was part of the bundle, and I really like to have those.

lolilol1975 · Post by **lolilol1975** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:33 am

Hello,

I have a Novation Impulse 25 and am quite happy with it overall, although I don't use it to the best of its possibilities, tbh. I chose this one because it has the best quality under 200€ on the market. It has a decent keyboard (for MIDI keyboards anyway) with real size keys, but it's a bit bulky though so make sure you have plenty of space on your desk. Still it's not toy-quality like, like most MIDI keyboards are.
The knobs are on the flimsy side but they didn't fail so far.

The Novation mapping software is mostly useless as it's designed for Ableton and Cubase (I'm using Reaper), so I have to do the mapping manually, so there is the mapping work to do for each synth.

At 600€, some digital pianos or synths can be used as MIDI keyboards and they often have far better keys than MIDI controllers.
https://www.audiomentor.com/audioproduc ... controller

plopseaw · Post by **plopseaw** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:42 am

Akai seem to have abandoned their VIP product as there are no updates even for critical bugs like crashing on switching a preset. Also support for key products like arturia, Spire, izotope, omnisphere etc is broken. Recently they informed that there would be no like fix for izotope products. Better off with NI or Ableton at this point

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:51 am

plopseaw wrote:Akai seem to have abandoned their VIP product as there are no updates even for critical bugs like crashing on switching a preset.

They fixed that part for me (Dune 2 at least).

At the end I found myself not using VIP yet at all, buggy or not. Apparently it's an overkill for me and I still managed to get my first release out

Universe of Noise · Post by **Universe of Noise** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:37 pm

Hi,

I've got a Novation Impulse 49 which you can have for free if you come and pick it up. I got an Akai Advance 61 which I much prefer so it's sat gathering dust. I'm in the UK, West Yorkshire. Let me know.

EDIT: Sorry Geoff, just noticed you're in Oz. Offer still stands though!

ulph · Post by **ulph** » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:30 pm

I have the advance 25s and for vsts it works fine, at least the ones I use (u-he stuff and the bundled stuff). Daw integration is non-existing, at least for my main Daw Reaper. Hardware-based it's good quality, however most buttons remain unused for me as I do not care for their generic arpeggiatir etc, and pad functions are just notes or chords which is rather pointless in my opinion.

Anyway, love it for the easy of mapping performance knobs but that is about it.

I am eyeballing the nectar panorama now. Seems very nice as long as sticking to the stuff they have made special integration for, both daws and plugs...