One Synth Challenge #93: OBXD by DiscoDSP & 2DaT (mmGhost Wins!)

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OB-Xd - Virtual Analog Synthesizer

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wagtunes wrote:almost 40 years of writing music (which goes to show you that if you don't have any talent it doesn't matter how long you work at something)
That's your martyr act again. I suggest you just drop it and look at this from a fresh perspective, without all the baggage. Nobody here is doubting your musical chops, as you have been told numerous times, one way or another. Wag, people respect you for the musical talent you have, and you have actual tasteful compositions to prove it. Full stop. Your actual music isn't unlikeable, it's good, and you aren't unlikeable either. I hope that piece of information can get through, to the core of your being, there somewhere :). The fact that your musical side is so developed, and you have devoted so much time to it, is a testament to the benefits of actually using considerable amounts of time on something, instead of the opposite.

There's no use going into that "wahh I don't have any talent and that's why it doesn't matter how long I work at something" mode again, just to hear one more time how you, indeed, do have talent. You do, and that should be clear by now. You have said you don't want anyone's sympathy, but that's exactly how it comes across when you are confronted with these things; going into the "fishing for people's sympathies" mode.

This is the important bit, and instead of rejecting this please give it some honest thought. When you're dealing with something like the One Synth Challenge, or ANY context where the end result is an actual production, a finished stereo mix of a piece of music. When you're presenting the finished audio as the work itself, not (for example) the sheet music. When it's about that, there are other elements at play, important ones, in addition to the abstract composition side. And when people keep telling you, you should use more time to learn those aspects, track after track, to realize your potential and carefully finish and polish your works, it's the whole package they are talking about. The whole production.

You remarked, not that long ago, that you didn't even know how a compressor actually works. A month ago it turned out you didn't know how to automate synth parameters in your DAW. Not a special case, but literally, you didn't know how to hook any parameter onto an automation lane, and draw an envelope into the arrangement, or how to copy/paste bits of that envelope along with midi events on the timeline.

Then, at the same time, you say things like "I don't traditionally spend countless hours on anything. I don't have that kind of patience", and moan about how you don't stand a chance against the ones who can do things better than you. What a surprise, someone who can do something better, and knows how to routinely use even the most basic production features of their DAW, will do better :). Fancy that.

The only way you can get better is by LEARNING it, and DOING it. That's how they got there, and there's no way around that. You have used so much time to let your composition skills develop, but you are a relative novice on the production side of things. Either fully accept that and actually put in those hours, or stop worrying about it altogether. In any case, it's not going to change all by itself. You're very good at some things, and you absolutely suck at some other things. Do something about it, anything, instead of doing this act month after month.

Depending on the OSC round, there are something like 30-80 people participating here every month. All kinds of styles, all sorts of skill sets, lots of creativity and tastes. And in the end, somehow, peeking into the threads, it seems it's so often just about you. Why on earth? Out of all those people, it's soooo often about you, and your hardships, yet you reject the things that could actually benefit you. If you don't change your approach, many threads like this will be ultimately futile Wagtunes motivational threads even years from now. And I think, somehow, on some level, that's what you want. It's weird, and it is what it is.
Last edited by Guenon on Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jasinski wrote:Wags, I'll humbly put this idea out there (I've observed it in others and lived it myself). A bit of success or even a LOT of success won't change the way you feel about yourself or your work. That's gotta come from inside.
Lies!
Winning is awesome! :hyper:

Ok, end of trolling

Sorry for trolling

I'm not really good at trolling am I?

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jasinski wrote:Wags, I'll humbly put this idea out there (I've observed it in others and lived it myself). A bit of success or even a LOT of success won't change the way you feel about yourself or your work. That's gotta come from inside.
Oh you're absolutely right. This has nothing to do with how I feel about my work. It has to do with just getting a little bit of recognition, that's all. My ego is big enough that I've already fallen in love with myself musically. I'd go into detail but then it just gets creepy.

It would just be nice to have people go, "Hey man, that was really good."

It's that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Guenon wrote:
wagtunes wrote:almost 40 years of writing music (which goes to show you that if you don't have any talent it doesn't matter how long you work at something)
That's your martyr act again. I suggest you just drop it and look at this from a fresh perspective, without all the baggage. Nobody here is doubting your musical chops, as you have been told numerous times, one way or another. Wag, people respect you for the musical talent you have, and you have actual tasteful compositions to prove it. Full stop. Your actual music isn't unlikeable, it's good, and you aren't unlikeable either. I hope that piece of information can get through, to the core of your being, there somewhere :). The fact that your musical side is so developed, and you have devoted so much time to it, is a testament to the benefits of actually using considerable amounts of time on something, instead of the opposite.

There's no use going into that "wahh I don't have any talent and that's why it doesn't matter how long I work at something" mode again, just to hear one more time how you, indeed, do have talent. You do, and that should be clear by now. You have said you don't want anyone's sympathy, but that's exactly how it comes across when you are confronted with these things; going into the "fishing for people's sympathies" mode.

This is the important bit, and instead of rejecting this please give it some honest thought. When you're dealing with something like the One Synth Challenge, or ANY context where the end result is an actual production, a finished stereo mix of a piece of music. When you're presenting the finished audio as the work itself, not (for example) the sheet music. When it's about that, there are other elements at play, important ones, in addition to the abstract composition side. And when people keep telling you, you should use more time to learn those aspects, track after track, to realize your potential and carefully finish and polish your works, it's the whole package they are talking about. The whole production.

You remarked, not that long ago, that you didn't even know how a compressor actually works. A month ago it turned out you didn't know how to automate synth parameters in your DAW. Not a special case, but literally, you didn't know how to hook any parameter onto an automation lane, and draw an envelope into the arrangement, or how to copy/paste bits of that envelope along with midi events on the timeline.

Then, at the same time, you say things like "I don't traditionally spend countless hours on anything. I don't have that kind of patience", and moan about how you don't stand a chance against the ones who can do things better than you. What a surprise, someone who can do something better, and knows how to routinely use even the most basic production features of their DAW, will do better :). Fancy that.

The only way you can get better is by LEARNING it, and DOING it. That's how they got there, and there's no way around that. You have used so much time to let your composition skills develop, but you are a relative novice on the production side of things. Either fully accept that and actually put in those hours, or stop worrying about it altogether. In any case, it's not going to change all by itself. You're very good at some things, and you absolutely suck at some other things. Do something about it, anything, instead of doing this act month after month.

Depending on the OSC round, there are something like 30-80 people participating here every month. All kinds of styles, all sorts of skill sets, lots of creativity and tastes. And in the end, somehow, peeking into the threads, it seems it's so often just about you. Why on earth? Out of all those people, it's soooo often about you, and your hardships, yet you reject the things that could actually benefit you. If you don't change your approach, many threads like this will be ultimately futile Wagtunes motivational threads even years from now. And I think, somehow, on some level, that's what you want. It's weird, and it is what it is.
What I'm about to say may shock you.

You're right. At some things, I'm not very good.

Learn?

Fine. Who's going to teach me?

See, that's the crux of the problem. Trying to learn on my own (and believe me, I truly have) I'm obviously not getting very far. I could list all the things that I know I have trouble doing but then we'd be here forever.

I know what I need. I need to literally go to a school to learn how to mix and master. It's that simple. Aside from the fact that I can't afford that, I don't even know if such a thing exists. Yes, I went to college. I learned musical composition. I can write freakin symphonies for God's sake. But nobody ever taught me how to properly use a compressor and EQ. They still haven't. And I don't even know where to begin to learn.

So again, who's going to teach me? Because obviously, after all this time, I haven't been able to figure it out on my own.

Until you can answer that question for me, there's really no point in continuing this conversation any further.

Makes sense?

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I had an idea, even prior to some of the comment above.

Since I believe the people here are genuinely helpful, what if along with posting on Souncloud we also zipped our projects and uploaded them somewhere? (or attach them to the entry post?)

I’m not looking to generate more work for you BjPorter.

I think it would be invaluable to some that are truly motivated to be able to look at a project and dissect it - bypassing effects, looking at automation, seeing how things are put together. Yes, we use different DAWs and effects, but I think it would still be helpful. It may create a feeling of exposure, which we all get over by even posting our music online in the first place. I’m a little hesitant even suggesting this. Any personal tricks would be out in the open. But…

How often have we seen a comments about how someone did something? Just last month Geunon did a great job describing his vocal effect at length. Z has offered help countless times. Jasinski has uploaded his projects in the past. If someone then comments about not knowing how to create a decent kick, there would be loads of examples to look at. No excuses.

It would be invaluable for those that truly want to learn and up their game as well as show how much work some people put into their projects.

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Voted, good luck to all
Man is least himself when he talks in the first person. Give him a mask, and he'll show you his true face

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wagtunes wrote:What I'm about to say may shock you.
It doesn't shock me because you have said literally everything you just said, before. You just keep repeating the same thing. Attention and drama, that's what it amounts to.
wagtunes wrote:Trying to learn on my own (and believe me, I truly have)
No, you haven't. Not nearly enough, at least. You complaining about your situation amounts to years already, and only in the last month you found out how to do automation envelopes in your DAW. Even then, when people were helping you do it, it was like pushing a cart uphill. "I can't do it, I can't do it!"

The problem isn't just something technical, or even the totality of mixing and mastering, creative and technical aspects of those combined. It's deeper than that. It's also performance related, producing a final interpretation of the (often very good) compositional idea you have; focusing on learning and using the tools and methods you have at your disposal to realize a piece. In short, most of the things that aren't explicitly conveyed in the notation, things that are "in between the notes"; everything that makes the chosen elements and parts flow like a polished whole. Performance (realtime or 100% programmed, or something in between), creative use of effects, transitions and other added polish, mixing, mastering.

The fact that you have been so vocal about this for such a long time, yet it only occurred to you during the past weeks that you might benefit from actually learning to use automation lanes in your DAW (eschewing, up until now, the idea that there should be any such movement in your tracks, edited on the project level), speaks volumes from in between the lines.
wagtunes wrote:I know what I need. I need to literally go to a school to learn how to mix and master. It's that simple. Aside from the fact that I can't afford that, I don't even know if such a thing exists. Yes, I went to college. I learned musical composition. I can write freakin symphonies for God's sake. But nobody ever taught me how to properly use a compressor and EQ. They still haven't. And I don't even know where to begin to learn.
Contact the college you attended, the department you were in, and ask for contacts and advice on these production and performance matters. Even if it was long ago, still do it. Google this stuff. Be open about it and don't fight it every chance you get. I recall you're a Fabfilter customer, go through all their great videos. Change your attitude and then do something.
wagtunes wrote:So again, who's going to teach me? Because obviously, after all this time, I haven't been able to figure it out on my own.
You went to college as did I, and I have also lectured on these subjects. I deal with music and audio production daily in my professional life. In my opinion, having seen how people have tried to help you many, many, many times here: no matter who you get to spoon feed you this stuff, things will not change until your own attitude changes.
wagtunes wrote:Until you can answer that question for me, there's really no point in continuing this conversation any further.
There's really no point in doing this whole dance over and over, either.

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Guenon wrote:
wagtunes wrote:What I'm about to say may shock you.
It doesn't shock me because you have said literally everything you just said, before. You just keep repeating the same thing. Attention and drama, that's what it amounts to.
wagtunes wrote:Trying to learn on my own (and believe me, I truly have)
No, you haven't. Not nearly enough, at least. You complaining about your situation amounts to years already, and only in the last month you found out how to do automation envelopes in your DAW. Even then, when people were helping you do it, it was like pushing a cart uphill. "I can't do it, I can't do it!"

The problem isn't just something technical, or even the totality of mixing and mastering, creative and technical aspects of those combined. It's deeper than that. It's also performance related, producing a final interpretation of the (often very good) compositional idea you have; focusing on learning and using the tools and methods you have at your disposal to realize a piece. In short, most of the things that aren't explicitly conveyed in the notation, things that are "in between the notes"; everything that makes the chosen elements and parts flow like a polished whole. Performance (realtime or 100% programmed, or something in between), creative use of effects, transitions and other added polish, mixing, mastering.

The fact that you have been so vocal about this for such a long time, yet it only occurred to you during the past weeks that you might benefit from actually learning to use automation lanes in your DAW (eschewing, up until now, the idea that there should be any such movement in your tracks, edited on the project level), speaks volumes from in between the lines.
wagtunes wrote:I know what I need. I need to literally go to a school to learn how to mix and master. It's that simple. Aside from the fact that I can't afford that, I don't even know if such a thing exists. Yes, I went to college. I learned musical composition. I can write freakin symphonies for God's sake. But nobody ever taught me how to properly use a compressor and EQ. They still haven't. And I don't even know where to begin to learn.
Contact the college you attended, the department you were in, and ask for contacts and advice on these production and performance matters. Even if it was long ago, still do it. Google this stuff. Be open about it and don't fight it every chance you get. I recall you're a Fabfilter customer, go through all their great videos. Change your attitude and then do something.
wagtunes wrote:So again, who's going to teach me? Because obviously, after all this time, I haven't been able to figure it out on my own.
You went to college as did I, and I have also lectured on these subjects. I deal with music and audio production daily in my professional life. In my opinion, having seen how people have tried to help you many, many, many times here: no matter who you get to spoon feed you this stuff, things will not change until your own attitude changes.
wagtunes wrote:Until you can answer that question for me, there's really no point in continuing this conversation any further.
There's really no point in doing this whole dance over and over, either.
If you have so much contempt for me, which is obvious, why are you wasting your time?

Regardless, fine. I will do what I need to do. I'll watch videos. I'll learn what I can on my own. I honestly don't have the confidence to believe I can do this on my own (and the college I went to 40 years ago closed) but whatever. I will make an honest effort.

I can't do more than that.

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Groundhog Day :D

Anyways there's some pretty cool tunes in this comp, looking forward to the tally not that it takes anything away from all the entries.

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wagtunes wrote:so much contempt for me, which is obvious
No. As I have said before, in my opinion your musical ideas are very good, and you are good. It's that one single thing, that perpetual defeatism, going on month after month, that "can't do" attitude that I unreservedly dislike.

It's great if you really do as you say: make an honest effort, and hey, then go on the production subforum when you need specific assistance on some things while honestly trying to learn. Just please don't try to "prove a point" on how difficult it is for a number of reasons, or how it's so time consuming, or anything of that sort. Just make an effort, ask for specific guidance over there when the need arises, in good spirits, and I'm certain there are people who are willing to chime in as long as you're open yourself. It's going to take time.

How ever you proceed from here, this whole thing is entirely up to you.

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wagtunes wrote:
If you have so much contempt for me, which is obvious, why are you wasting your time?
Honestly, I am not picking up any contempt there. You are pushing people away who are legitimately trying to help you.

I can totally understand your frustrations, which is partly why I haven't done this contest til I felt like my production skills improved enough to give it another go. It is easy to take it personally if you score near the bottom as I have in the past. But you are already dreading the results when the votes haven't been tallied yet, which is a bit ridiculous.

This defeatist attitude that you have no talent is holding you back. Avoiding DAW automation for so long is case in point. If you put in as much effort into improving your weak areas as you do into sound design your productions would quickly increase in quality.

One of my big aha moments in life is that passion, persistence, skill, and attitude are all way more important than inherent talent...talent can be gifted to you at birth but it can also be earned through focus.

Try to step outside of your comfort zone and put out a positive vibe and see what happens.

Your skill and talent are definitely improving. But you essentially admitted that this is the first time you have really given it 100%. Perhaps that is why it is taking so long for you to see the results you are hoping for.

Also, it's just a contest, don't let it stress you out so much.
Last edited by SoundGoddess on Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~ good luck ~
~ re~member to do good in a spirit of love, unity, compassion, and kindness ~

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wagtunes wrote:I know what I need. I need to literally go to a school to learn how to mix and master. It's that simple. Aside from the fact that I can't afford that, I don't even know if such a thing exists.


Nah you really don't. This excuse is also holding you back.
wagtunes wrote:Yes, I went to college. I learned musical composition. I can write freakin symphonies for God's sake. But nobody ever taught me how to properly use a compressor and EQ. They still haven't. And I don't even know where to begin to learn.
Here you go, read this:

https://www.zinio.com/www/browse/produc ... =500630922#/

I was able to access this video with a free basic account:

https://www.skillshare.com/classes/musi ... Redirect=1

Tons of high-quality content is available for cheap:

https://ask.audio/academy?nleloc=topic/mixing

https://www.adsrsounds.com/csoftware/mixing-mastering/

https://www.groove3.com/Mixing-Basics-t ... -tutorials

https://www.lynda.com/Mixing-Mastering- ... /22-0.html

https://www.skillshare.com/classes/music/

If still insist you really need to go to school then it is reasonably affordable these days, especially compared to college (they offer split-payment):

http://www.pointblankmusicschool.com/co ... ng-online/
~ good luck ~
~ re~member to do good in a spirit of love, unity, compassion, and kindness ~

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[Mod edit: post removed in the interest of keeping this thread on topic.]

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Dang.

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I hope you all know that personal attacks against members is against the rules of this forum and the above post has been reported.

if you guys want to start slinging mud you are messing with the wrong person.

This was totally uncalled for.

And this is the last I'm even getting into this with any of you. I will not roll around in the mud with you people.

In fact, since I have already reported that I have voted, I am done with this thread and done with the OSCs.

Now feel free to continue digging up as much stuff as you can about me until this thread ends up getting locked.

Yes, it's no wonder I f**king hate this place.

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