!Epoch, for the next 4 years

[LYTZ]

But in seriousness, like most others in this thread my money has been waiting to throw itself at Epoch since forever

That's the problem right there... I sincerely hope that Epoch won't become the biggest disappointment in
software history... Expectations are certainly extremely high because of half-a-decade of fuzz...

[VariKusBrainZ]

Theres enough info and screen shots to make a reasonable judgement

[LYTZ]

Well, good for you.

I would never make a judgement for a software product based on info and screenshots again.
Been there, done that, dumped a lot of money over the last years for stuff that looked good "on paper"
but wasn't that great in actual everyday workhorse practice.

For me: No judgement anymore before I actually know how stable it is, how CPU intense it is, how fast the workflow is, how practical and so on. Ever.

Got this thing on my radar also since quite a while. So fingers crossed, no doubt. I am with you on that.

Best,
tL.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Well, good for you.

I would never make a judgement for a software product based on info and screenshots again.
Been there, done that, dumped a lot of money over the last years for stuff that looked good "on paper"
but wasn't that great in actual everyday workhorse practice.

For me: No judgement anymore before I actually know how stable it is, how CPU intense it is, how fast the workflow is, how practical and so on. Ever.

Got this thing on my radar also since quite a while. So fingers crossed, no doubt. I am with you on that.

Best,
tL.

Of course demoing is essential, especially for a tool like this and I don't expect it to be cheap either.

[colin@loomer]

Of course demoing is essential

Absolutely: the beta and subsequent evaluation builds will be as fully functional as needed - no timeouts or expiry dates - to allow you to make a proper decision on whether or not it's for you. I think you'll all going to love it, but I'm hoping that purchases will be made of the strength of the tool itself, rather than on any hype.

I don't expect it to be cheap either

Think Reaktor or Numerology level of pricing, rather than MAX/MSP.

[bungle]

Personally it will come down to future plans too, it has been a long time in coming, so i am expecting a lot more than just a configurable arp/step sequencer hahaha.
I would expect with the amount of time an effort you have put in to this that it will have to start to replace DAWs for composition and indeed have things added that means it could become a non linear style environment for audio too (Synced audio track/recorder, triggered audio parts)
Basically i am hoping for a bunch of the stuff from XT 1.4 that never got added to v2 (And we all know how that worked out for that developer)
Plus full integration of all the previous Loomer plugins.

To be fair, a full on non linear pattern based sequencer with full integration of the previous Loomer plugins is already a huge huge start, but at the same time it is not a world changer, but reality is, while there may be a little bit of hype in this thread, in the grand scheme of things, nobody actually knows or indeed gives a s**t about it outside of this thread yet haha

[LYTZ]

i am expecting a lot more than just a configurable arp/step sequencer hahaha.
I would expect with the amount of time an effort you have put in to this that it will have to start to replace DAWs for composition and indeed have things added that means it could become a non linear style environment for audio too

Quite some of the same expectations here... I expect no less than Epoch blowing
Numerology, Bidule, AudioMulch and Max4Cats combined out of
the water after a Dev-Cycle *that* long....

Beating the (potentially quite soon-to-come) Usine Hollyhock III will become much harder though...
These guys are really going nutz with ideas. However, I expect
Numerology to be Epochs most likely direct competition, if any.
But then again Numerology Development was more than underwhelming the last 2 years or so...
But who knows, my gut tells me he's on the next major version already as well since quite some time...
Bidule and Audiomulch are done anyways.

Given the fact that there is not much stuff like this, guys like us will probably
end up owning everything that has a good modular architecture anyways, lol...

Best,
tL.

(BTW: There was Modulince (Modular DAW) for a short time, marketed with the slogan "What if an Eurorack and a DAW had a baby..." Was even picked up shortly by Richard Devine...
Was very nice on paper, but at the end it seems that thing turned out to be so disappointing for the Dev that even the website doesnt exist anymore, lol... I hope that we go into the other direction here... )

[VariKusBrainZ]

Well for one Hollyhock 3 wont be available as a VST plugin, besides the other obvious differences

[LYTZ]

That's true, but see, everybody is different. Honestly, I am not looking for yet another modular VST plugin.
For me, there are enough already. Especially now with MUX Modular in beta for OSX and Reaktor Blocks.
Got Bidule and Numerology already and some other stuff as well... (And then there's Max4Cats,but me and Ableton are no friends. And more, and-and-and.. there is enough for me of that kind of nonsense already.. )

In my case I am looking for a strong standalone modular Host-software.
And it may or may not deliver. I thought Hollyhock II was actually quite close,
but then again it was not...

For me it's the same like Bungle said:

I would expect with the amount of time an effort you have put in to this that it will have to start to replace DAWs for composition

Otherwise from my specific point of view I am absolutely not interested in yet another VST...
But good for you, when a good modular VST fits your needs you're certainly gonna enjoy a lot of
the stuff that's coming sooner or later, as a lot of Devs seem to be moving modular lately...

Best,
tL.

(Personal note: I find it interesting that most of the guys here seem to be pretty much "oldtimers" in the music-making-process considering the joining dates. No B-wiggie-kiddie-catpix around here it seems...
I kinda appreciate that... )

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, for me personally it's pretty much a "Reaktor for Midi" I'm looking for. Reaktor sucks big time in that area because of it's missing event tracking and all the other offerings don't really deal that well with advanced Midi processing either if you want to get more involved than some sequencers and a bit of randomisation.
Falcons internal Lua implementation is very well done in that it helps the user in tracking voices, but for experimentation I prefer nodes over code. And since Falcon does not send Midi to the outside world, it's a closed system.

For me, Bidule is missing a user-GUI system and handling midi and modulation isn't exactly that intuitive.
Hollyhock is somehow always almost there but in then end it's not exactly what I enjoy working with - not being a VST doesn't help either. MUX isn't my thing from how it thinks, Numerology is too step-sequencer centred for me and wasn't available for PC the last time I looked.
MaxMSP/M4L is doing Midi weird as well.
So the main appeal for me is the midi-centric focus of !Epoch that makes me interested, I hope to get some interesting generative things out of it.
I don't need a DAW, Bitwig is everything I need in that regard. If they get their modular node system finished before !Epoch finally sees the magnetic fields of our harddrives, it depends on which system makes it easier to deal with generative experimenting.

Since both system are rather long in the tooth, I may lose my interest in generative music before they finally manifest...

Cheers,

T m

[VariKusBrainZ]

Yup, me too.

Been waiting for the vst equivalent to MusicWonk and BuildingBlocks for a loooooong time

[bungle]

Seems it will have to cover a lot of ground or it wont be that popular, lots of different expectations !!

[VariKusBrainZ]

Seems it will have to cover a lot of ground or it wont be that popular, lots of different expectations !!

I expect it to be a highly configurable sequencer based on all the info released

[whyterabbyt]

a full on non linear pattern based sequencer with full integration of the previous Loomer plugins

was this mooted by colin as a feature?

[whyterabbyt]

Well for one Hollyhock 3 wont be available as a VST plugin, besides the other obvious differences

Yeah, that's the thing that finally killed my interest in HH, after a long time waiting on that very thing. well, that and the repeated change in purchasing model, and the iffy plugin scanning.