Hi Roger and Geert,
I don't know how hard this would be to program so please forgive me if this sounds ridiculous.
I see that if I split my Linnstrument each split can only have 8 channels. Probably for most people this would be more than enough. I would really like to have the ability for each split to have 16 midi channels. This would probably mean that the Linnstrument would have to look like two virtual Linnstrument devices to my computer. And to keep everyone happy that virtual mode would probably need to have an on/off switch.
Please understand that your invention and all of the awesome programming that has gone into it is just fabulous. It is by far the best controller out there for the money and really good features.
Why I'd like to have more channels on each split is because I'd like to use all 200 pads - 100 or so to each split. And besides the demands of microtonality which can really push the current old midi standard I like to layer synths in omni mode. I could not have done my performance at Wake Forest University without layering Pianoteq, Kontakt, and a few instances of Zeta+ 2.1 *and* play in a 128 note Just Intonation tuning. I used the "no offset" setting. So each of the pads had this or that combination of sounds which I add on and remove during the performance. All of the synths are in omni mode which allows for a pseudo-MPE like combinations in synth set up.
For the curious http://chrisvaisvil.com/runway-lights-in-128/
Trying to set something like this up with the current splits would mean capturing and routing each individual channel to the proper destination. Its possible to do. I have to open an individual midi track in Sonar for each channel and then load 8 instances of each synth to capture all the midi data for one sound on one split. Even with my i7 6700 Quad core cpu and 16 gigs of ram I currently have things get bogged down quickly. The performance linked above was done with less than half of that computing capability because I could take advantage of "omni" in split mode. I tried it with the Linnstrument as it current is programmed and simply put Omni stayed omni even with the routing trick. The soft synth would see both splits irregardless.
I don't know if this is even feasible. If it was, and if implemented, the Linnstrument would be even more awesome - which is an incredible thought. Even as it stands I really have to thank you for this wonderful controller.
Warmly,
Chris Vaisvil
Split mode LinnStrument Question - Feature Request
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 13 Jul, 2009
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- KVRAF
- 2486 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi Chris,
Unfortunately LinnStrument is not capable of a second USB MIDI port. However, I don't quite understand your limitation. If you are setting your multiple synths all to OMNI mode, that means that each synth is mixing all channels together, which is no different that sending on a single channel. So why are you setting LinnStrument to Channel Per Note mode, which will cause conflicts in pressure, Bend and y-axis when the per-note channels are mixed together? I don't see how more channels would give you a larger range of MIDI note numbers.
Maybe if you can explain your musical goal, I can't suggest the best setup to achieve it.
Unfortunately LinnStrument is not capable of a second USB MIDI port. However, I don't quite understand your limitation. If you are setting your multiple synths all to OMNI mode, that means that each synth is mixing all channels together, which is no different that sending on a single channel. So why are you setting LinnStrument to Channel Per Note mode, which will cause conflicts in pressure, Bend and y-axis when the per-note channels are mixed together? I don't see how more channels would give you a larger range of MIDI note numbers.
Maybe if you can explain your musical goal, I can't suggest the best setup to achieve it.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 13 Jul, 2009
Hi Roger,
Operating with 16 channels in note per channel mode with omni is a world of difference from operating with one channel per note mode without omni. One example is pitch bend - with one channel if I play two notes on the linnstrument, holding one, and bending the other, both notes will respond to the bend, or any other CC message. However, in omni mode I can hold one note that was sent on channel X and play another note on channel Y and the CC messages like bend or modulation only affect the respective note. This mimics MPE mode up to a point.
That is the main advantage. I don't think this is possible with the current split mode with keeping the splits totally independent.
And to be clear, I am talking about two virtual linnstruments as a software implementation. We have discussed before the idea of using the DIN for one split and the USB for the other split and as I recall the difference in clock speed made routing each split like that impossible.
Warmly,
Chris
Operating with 16 channels in note per channel mode with omni is a world of difference from operating with one channel per note mode without omni. One example is pitch bend - with one channel if I play two notes on the linnstrument, holding one, and bending the other, both notes will respond to the bend, or any other CC message. However, in omni mode I can hold one note that was sent on channel X and play another note on channel Y and the CC messages like bend or modulation only affect the respective note. This mimics MPE mode up to a point.
That is the main advantage. I don't think this is possible with the current split mode with keeping the splits totally independent.
And to be clear, I am talking about two virtual linnstruments as a software implementation. We have discussed before the idea of using the DIN for one split and the USB for the other split and as I recall the difference in clock speed made routing each split like that impossible.
Warmly,
Chris
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- KVRAF
- 2486 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
That's actually not correct. In One Channel mode, we went to great lengths to avoid such conflicts. It's described on this page:ferretclone wrote:Hi Roger,
Operating with 16 channels in note per channel mode with omni is a world of difference from operating with one channel per note mode without omni. One example is pitch bend - with one channel if I play two notes on the linnstrument, holding one, and bending the other, both notes will respond to the bend, or any other CC message. However, in omni mode I can hold one note that was sent on channel X and play another note on channel Y and the CC messages like bend or modulation only affect the respective note. This mimics MPE mode up to a point.
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/midi-details.html
It is impossible to achieve independent per-note 3D control unless you are using an MPE synth. OMNI mode (as defined in the MIDI specification) merely mixes all the channels together, though it's possible that the synth you are using used the word incorrectly to mean MPE operation.
It's a little different. The USB MIDI is handled by a separate processor whose firmware uses only one MIDI port and can't be changed. However, I still don't see why having more than 16 channels would solve any problems that can't be solved otherwise.ferretclone wrote: And to be clear, I am talking about two virtual linnstruments as a software implementation. We have discussed before the idea of using the DIN for one split and the USB for the other split and as I recall the difference in clock speed made routing each split like that impossible.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 13 Jul, 2009
Hi Roger,
With regard to running on one channel from the page you pointed to I have some difference of opinion when it comes to utility:
And - what I'm describing is with non-MPE synths.
I honestly didn't like to write that - I hold you in high regard and really love the Linnstrument. Yet as far as I know if you engage split mode the outside world has no way to determine which side of the split you are using unless you limit the number of channels and make them unique for each split. And when that is done I have to be concerned with routing individual midi channels to get anything close to channel per note mode.
Perhaps there is another clever way to use a different midi setting besides channels to make a it clear to the software which split you are using. I would love to be able to do that.
Though honestly at the end of the day, Roger, you've really gone above and beyond when it comes to customer service, so if this is a bridge too far I'll understand.
With respect,
Chris
With regard to running on one channel from the page you pointed to I have some difference of opinion when it comes to utility:
Indeed that happens as described, but can you really call quantizing a pitch bend to semitones a pitch bend? If I am in omni mode and use all 16 channels I can hold notes and get true bends on just one or any of the notes held with complete freedom of movement.• If you perform a note-to-note pitch slide while also holding one or more other notes, the slide will be quantized to semitones. This prevents the slide from also changing the pitch of the other held notes.
Again, this works as advertized and the every note held has the last note control what is equivalent to the mod wheel (or whatever you have Y assigned to). In channel per note mode each note held has its own dedicated mod wheel much like a Roli Rise and its individual note control (I own a Rise 49)If you are holding more than one note, forward/backward (Y-axis) movements are taken only from the most recent touch. This works very intuitively: whenever you play a new note, it has Y-axis control.
And - what I'm describing is with non-MPE synths.
I honestly didn't like to write that - I hold you in high regard and really love the Linnstrument. Yet as far as I know if you engage split mode the outside world has no way to determine which side of the split you are using unless you limit the number of channels and make them unique for each split. And when that is done I have to be concerned with routing individual midi channels to get anything close to channel per note mode.
Perhaps there is another clever way to use a different midi setting besides channels to make a it clear to the software which split you are using. I would love to be able to do that.
Though honestly at the end of the day, Roger, you've really gone above and beyond when it comes to customer service, so if this is a bridge too far I'll understand.
With respect,
Chris
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- KVRAF
- 2486 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi Chris,
The problem we're having is semantics. If LinnStrument is set to Channel Per Note mode and you're hearing fully independent 3D for each touch, then your synth is effectively in MPE mode and therefore each voice is receiving on a different MIDI channel. I promise you anything else is impossible. If your synth calls it OMNI mode, they are redefining the term to be different than as defined in the MIDI specification, but who cares? You've got an MPE synth, which is a good thing.
And if you ever want to use a particular good-sounding synth that does not have MPE capability, then LinnStrument's One Channel mode has smarts that allow you to get the absolute most use within the limitations of a single MIDI channel. This is also a good thing.
And if you want to mix and match LinnStrument's MIDI Modes with your synth's MIDI modes, then you'll run into what most people would call unexpected problems. But if you like that, then that is a third good thing.
The problem we're having is semantics. If LinnStrument is set to Channel Per Note mode and you're hearing fully independent 3D for each touch, then your synth is effectively in MPE mode and therefore each voice is receiving on a different MIDI channel. I promise you anything else is impossible. If your synth calls it OMNI mode, they are redefining the term to be different than as defined in the MIDI specification, but who cares? You've got an MPE synth, which is a good thing.
And if you ever want to use a particular good-sounding synth that does not have MPE capability, then LinnStrument's One Channel mode has smarts that allow you to get the absolute most use within the limitations of a single MIDI channel. This is also a good thing.
And if you want to mix and match LinnStrument's MIDI Modes with your synth's MIDI modes, then you'll run into what most people would call unexpected problems. But if you like that, then that is a third good thing.
