Computer plugins never will be as good as analog or better.

[stratum]

In the past it used to be about solid state vs valves. The discussion was sensible, and real differences could be quoted but the main problem was usually missed. If a solid state amp sounded bad, for example, the reason was that the designer had copied an hifi amp schematic and attached a guitar amp tonestack somewhere and put a cheap speaker in and it was marketed to... you know. The valve amp in comparison had dedicated speakers in a 4x12 cab, and the signal path was designed with overdrive in mind, from the first point to the last. Then the argument goes, valves add even order harmonics, overdrive gently, and bla blah. Yes all are probably correct and valid points, but the overall picture reveals a much different problem which isn't a subtle difference at all.

[Nielzie]

The only thing that actually ever be better with old analogs is the user experience of the real thing, twisting those knobs and sliders real time of that analog beast, playing those old wonky keys, smelling that dusty old degraded handcrafted piece of wood and metal and having to come up with every sound by yourself. Live with it's limitations like mono, out of tune oscs, screetchy sliders, etc. It's a mindset.

So it's NOT about the sound. In a real mix you could not hear the difference anyway.

[stratum]

Live with it's limitations like mono, out of tune oscs, screetchy sliders, etc. It's a mindset.

That may have some truth in it. Since one didn't have too many knobs to play with, the same time could be spent on, say, things like actually composing music instead of repeating a pattern...

[fluffy_little_something]

One can play back music made exclusively with analog hardware on a computer or other digital device and nobody says it sounds digital, a certain sampling rate provided. You can hear all the analog details, warmth or whatever despite the whole thing passing processors, D/A converters and what not.
There is nothing magical about analog sound, it is just physics, i.e. it can be replicated with the right equipment.
There are already plugins which come so close that people can't tell the sounds apart in blind tests.

[stratum]

There is nothing magic about analog sound, it is just physics, i.e. it can be replicated with the right equipment.

Some highly credible people seriously argue for the non-computability of physics and build crazy theories on top of the idea. Not that it is relevant, but just be aware; and it's about theoretical non-computability, not just about the fact that, say, simulating this or that analog filter may take some intractable advanced math or an inefficient simulation when that math is applied in practice.

[JCJR]

Personally, I think Chernenkov radiation causes too much aliasing.

I thought it was that too much aliasing causes Cherenkov radiation?

[bronxsound]

plugins have already surpassed analog so the thread now can be closed

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I love the irony of the fact that the OP is the guy who got miffed that Urs wont remove the noise modelling from the Satin tape emulator for him.

Oh I've missed some epic amusement it sounds like mate!

Of course, he also claims that analog tape machine noise can be removed completely as long as the tape machine is powered by a 'portable nuclear powerplant'.

Personally, I think Chernenkov radiation causes too much aliasing.

You've still got it, You savage/too funny mate

[Compyfox]

The following is brought to you by the Key of Cb...

So... these might look like normal hands, but they're NOT NORMAL HANDS!

This one is Lenny! And Lenny's an expert in Digital Signal Processing, with a specialty in JUCE Framework code. Can you say "JUCE Framework Code"?!

Okay, ah... and this! This is Timmy! Timmy is an expert in Analog Hardware Design with a specialty in Discrete Class A components. Can you say "Discrete Class A components"?!

Uh... anyway, check it out. They're about to have a conversation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-uKeRNryE

[Richard_Synapse]

And the final mix down will go to:
1. The best in the world converters and the best digital audio formats for storage on computers so people can listen that on modern computers.

We already have that. If you can hear the difference between a high-end converter and a standard one (i.e. a converter used in a sound interface that costs no more than a few hundred bucks), just buy it. I'm pretty sure that if you do a blind test with consumers, they won't be able to hear any difference. I wouldn't be surprised if even expert listeners such as music producers won't hear any difference whatsoever.

2. Restore production of high end tapes and high end vinyl for studio use and consumers listenings.
3. Develop better analog audio storage medium then tape which will fix some problems of it for example to increas dynamic and frequency range, reduce noise, longer playback time but also be more portable for studio use and consumers listenings.

The industry usually produces what people want, or what they think people want. Besides, if you fix the tape issues the best you can hope for is getting closer to the digital playback quality we already have.

Richard

[Aloysius]

I've never used a piece of software that didn't require a piece of hardware to run it.

[mellotronaut]

I was looking for taste and here is my thought what taste can be:

[stratum]

Here is a recording from 70's, probably was recorded on analog tape. I cannot see any reason as to why it couldn't be made just as good using DAW software and plugins, but pattern-repeating musicianship might be getting in the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deeBQZ8Aklc

[fmr]

The following is brought to you by the Key of Cb...

So... these might look like normal hands, but they're NOT NORMAL HANDS!

This one is Lenny! And Lenny's an expert in Digital Signal Processing, with a specialty in JUCE Framework code. Can you say "JUCE Framework Code"?!

Okay, ah... and this! This is Timmy! Timmy is an expert in Analog Hardware Design with a specialty in Discrete Class A components. Can you say "Discrete Class A components"?!

Uh... anyway, check it out. They're about to have a conversation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-uKeRNryE

Yes we can! No we can't

[Architeuthis]

If computers came first, the argument would be "analog will never sound as good as digital."

Actually, if we're talking about synthesizers, digital will sound better than analog, especially as computers get faster and x16 oversampling becomes the default setting.

The output of the circuitry of an analog synth is simply a series of squiggly lines when viewed on an oscilloscope. Those squiggly lines are not special just because they started off as real-life electricity. The 1's and 0s on a computer can recreate those squiggly lines just fine. The proof is this: If you listen to a recording of an analog synth (via a digital recording), you are listening to the 0s and 1s that create squiggly lines.

YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO ANALOG SQUIGGLY LINES UNLESS YOU GO FROM SYNTH TO SPEAKER!

The trick is to create those squiggly lines from scratch with an audio plugin. I agree there are few VSTs that create nice squiggly lines as well as analog. We have to understand the MAIN difference between analog and digital: with digital, you can make any arbitrary squiggly line. With analog, you have to create a mathematical system with resistors and capacitors and whathaveyou. That is a huge limitation! It's the difference between your imagination and reality.

Digital == imagination, theoretical, intangible
Analog == reality, physical, tangible

analog == a system that can only create a certain output.
digital == arbitrary output, whatever you want at any time.

As soon as you take an analog circuit and design a series of switches which allow you to create an arbitrary output, you've now invented a computer. So, don't argue that you can create an arbitrary output with analog. As soon as it's arbitrary, IT'S DIGITAL! It's digital whether you're using an analog system to create it or not. As stated before, computers are built using physical analog components.

The only digital computer is one that exists inside a computer program.

Once again, there's nothing special about an analog synth. And I personally believe everyone needs to stop looking at and recreating analog circuits to create audio plugins. FFS, what if digital synths came first? What if analog synths never existed? You'd have no circuits to emulate.