KVR Audio

AnalogGuy1 · Post by **AnalogGuy1** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:25 am

...does anyone have any idea when this will happen? I love my setup, but have to take out a magnifying glass to work with Massive. It's ridiculous that such a popular VST should remain so crippled because of a GUI issue.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:26 am

AnalogGuy1 wrote:...does anyone have any idea when this will happen? I love my setup, but have to take out a magnifying glass to work with Massive. It's ridiculous that such a popular VST should remain so crippled because of a GUI issue.

Probably never. They will slowly fade out the seperate vst's (not fx per se) and go full reaktor and kontakt (my wild guess)...

Or (and i hope....) I am completely wrong and they baffle us with FM9, Absynth6 and Massive2. Who knows...

JonSolo · Post by **JonSolo** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:09 am

My expectations is that some of this will move over to Reaktor. All of their latest synth endeavors come from their. To be honest I have no idea if Reaktor is scalable cause whenever I use it, I usually go straight for specific presets I know about that I need for my productions.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:30 am

Massive 2 with a reworked sound engine, and filters on the level of the ones in Reaktor would be awesome, and surely would give Serum a run for its money. I hope NI won't miss such a chance. Do they rely on that? Surely not. But it would be great, and also another great argument for Komplete.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:36 am

Native Instruments doesn't seem to care about much more besides Maschine, Reaktor (thankfully), and sample packs... I just found out today that they've long since discontinued Rig Kontrol 3 and replaced it with... nothing. It seems that NI has found their own comfortable perpetual repeat sales niche and the minimal effort required to stay profitable.

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:00 am

Jace-BeOS wrote: It seems that NI has found their own comfortable perpetual repeat sales niche and the minimal effort required to stay profitable.

This pretty well sums it up the state of play for NI...

But it would be great if they could forget Kontakt and Reaktor for a while and upgrade their standalone synths...

Kontakt is not a synth and it never will be and I don't like having to load Reaktor,just to play a synth...

That's just too clunky and cumbersome...

Sometimes it's a good thing to actually give the customers what they want

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:13 am

digitalboytn wrote: Kontakt is not a synth and it never will be and I don't like having to load Reaktor,just to play a synth...

That's just too clunky and cumbersome...

Sometimes it's a good thing to actually give the customers what they want

Agreed.

I stopped upgrading Komplete at version 9. I'm tired of shovelware sample libraries being included as content in Komplete.

The next version of Komplete I buy will have feature updates to the synthesizers (FM8, Massive, Absynth) and not in order to keep Reaktor or Kontakt up to date.

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:13 am

VitaminD wrote: "shovelware sample libraries "

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:46 am

The problem with Reaktor, it's impossible to make complex synths like Massive, FM8 and Absynth with low cpu usage, or even with moderate cpu usage!

I'm sure (or very optimistic indeed) if they support further development in the successful trio, it would be a massive success. But it should be out of Reaktor and Kontakt using no specific platform, just C/C++ code (or whatever they did FM8 or Massive with).

Anyway, I don't think NI did anything outside Reaktor and Kontakt these past few years

Maybe because the trio are sill selling well?

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:12 am

digitalboytn wrote:I don't like having to load Reaktor,just to play a synth...

That's just too clunky and cumbersome...

Sometimes it's a good thing to actually give the customers what they want

Sometimes it's also good to learn to use your tools: Save your most used ensembles as Instrument Racks or FX Chains or whatever the equal is called in your DAW, then you can load them with one click just like any synth. That said, just loading Reaktor and selecting an ensemble isn't any more clunkier than loading a synth and selecting a preset in reality.

EnGee wrote:The problem with Reaktor, it's impossible to make complex synths like Massive, FM8 and Absynth with low cpu usage, or even with moderate cpu usage!

Where did you get that idea? There are huge, complex Reaktor synths that use very little CPU, many times less than Beatzille for example. The reason those three synths are low CPU today (Absynth was a major hog when it was made) is because they simply don't contain the latest advancements- ZDF and sample rate modulation. The overhead added by Reaktor is neglible.

wickfut · Post by **wickfut** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:24 am

.jon wrote:
digitalboytn wrote:That said, just loading Reaktor and selecting an ensemble isn't any more clunkier than loading a synth and selecting a preset in reality.

Loading synths it isn't a problem, going through presets and sound banks is a problem. Most Reaktor synths don't respond to the standard midi patch+ or patch- commands and have a really poor, or even buggy, annoying patch browser (I'm looking at you Razor, with your constant jumping back to the initial top sound in the sound bank when I'm trying to scroll through them)

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:51 am

.jon wrote:

EnGee wrote:The problem with Reaktor, it's impossible to make complex synths like Massive, FM8 and Absynth with low cpu usage, or even with moderate cpu usage!
Where did you get that idea? There are huge, complex Reaktor synths that use very little CPU, many times less than Beatzille for example. The reason those three synths are low CPU today (Absynth was a major hog when it was made) is because they simply don't contain the latest advancements- ZDF and sample rate modulation. The overhead added by Reaktor is neglible.

Which are those complex Reaktor synths that use very little CPU?! Even the monophonic blocks can eat my PC for lunch!

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:06 am

I never fully understood that stupid "snapshot" construction and ensemble editing, I just want to have my patches loading and saving as in any other VST.

If there would be a way just to compile that ensembles into standalone VSTs, that would be awesome...but I guess that's not possible (and that's not my concern, I'm not an engineer...)

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:08 pm

EnGee wrote:Which are those complex Reaktor synths that use very little CPU?! Even the monophonic blocks can eat my PC for lunch!

Check out the Factory Library, Photone, aka the proto-Massive is one such example.

Blocks offer the highest fidelity currently available, and all modulation happens at sample (audio) rate. This hurts the CPU in all other modern synths with that feature (Bazille, Repro-1...)

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:14 pm

.jon wrote:
digitalboytn wrote:I don't like having to load Reaktor,just to play a synth...

That's just too clunky and cumbersome...

Sometimes it's a good thing to actually give the customers what they want
Sometimes it's also good to learn to use your tools: Save your most used ensembles as Instrument Racks or FX Chains or whatever the equal is called in your DAW, then you can load them with one click just like any synth. That said, just loading Reaktor and selecting an ensemble isn't any more clunkier than loading a synth and selecting a preset in reality.

EnGee wrote:The problem with Reaktor, it's impossible to make complex synths like Massive, FM8 and Absynth with low cpu usage, or even with moderate cpu usage!
Where did you get that idea? There are huge, complex Reaktor synths that use very little CPU, many times less than Beatzille for example. The reason those three synths are low CPU today (Absynth was a major hog when it was made) is because they simply don't contain the latest advancements- ZDF and sample rate modulation. The overhead added by Reaktor is neglible.

Actually, Massive is quite a CPU hog for what it does. At least on the highest quality setting. I don't even want to know how it was on PC's, which were current by the time it was released, nearly 10 years ago. Probably Diva-esque.

NI Massive support for GUI scaling