TBProAudio releases mvMeter - Multivariable Meter including RMS, EBUR128, VU and PPM measurement for

[Compyfox]

Found a nasty bug in reaper where when you click on the gain to drag but it jumps straight away to +24dB!

We will look into this, should not happen. Is it reproducibly? Thanks

I'm currently testing various metering tools against each other if they're suitable in heavy project use...


Can confirm this behavior in Cubase 7.5.x x64 under Win7 Pro x64
+24dB gain boist happens randomly when copying over the UI from one insert to the other


The "hold max values" vanish after 2-3min (M mode active) (just wasted 45min on this alone... thought I made a mistake, but it's "a feature"). Both the hold needle and numeric readout is being reset to -inf So this makes this feature completely useless while setting up a project.


Additional to that - 38 instances of mvMeter eats up 5,5GB of RAM. I think this correlates with the graphic engine.



You're still quiet on the offsets and "obvious cloning" I see... Doesn't surprise me (also looking at another recent release...)

My recommendation is still:
I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS PLUGIN

[cprompt]

Not to piss on a developer's thread, but I got Klanghelm VUMT and couldn't be happier. Just a delight to work with and worth every penny.

[Turello]

@Compyfox, would you be so kindly to suggest me a good meter?
Thanks in advance...

[Compyfox]

Hasn't this been dragged enough into OT?

Also... I don't know what type of application you're after... but my PM folder is open.

[Turello]

@Compyfox: I'm sorry, maybe I was unclear but (seriously) I mean: What advice meters to the mix and what advice for mastering?

But forgive me for the rest, english is not my (first/native) language and I may have made a bit of confusion as I entrusted myself to your wisdom...

[Compyfox]

I guess I can simplify that - as I've written this over and over in recent years (KVRMarks for example) and wouldn't turn this thread too OT (again, my PM inbox folder is open).

Mixing:
I definitely recommend a combination of a VU and a Digital meter (if you're not used to PPM's) to balance out each other's flaws

Mastering:
Accurate(!!!) RMS meters, with or without special applications (like K-System, ITU-R BS.1770-x, etc), plus a sample accurate digital meter (for measuring your maximum signal strength to see if your material clips or not)



But to reiterate what I've said before - this(!) particular meter is not accurate still (see previous posts), so I'd rather look at different tools on the market. Plenty of them available at this point that don't try to fool you with something that it really isn't.

[Turello]

Thanks...

[Eleventh]

try to fool you with something that it really isn't.

Haven't you shat enough on this thread already without offhandedly throwing accusations like this?

[Compyfox]

Again - if you can disprove my findings, as in "actual debunking with suitable/reproducable tests to back that up" - please do so, and we can start a hopefully objective conversation.

I've yet to see that happening in this thread.
Until then, I will stand my ground.

...whether you like it or not, or consider me "sh*tting on the developer's creation"...

[b4serenity]

Go Comfy go! What's wrong with the solid testing that he's done? If it's wrong refute it with your own testing procedures. He's taking his own time to help the KVR community. What's wrong with that? Why would anyone want to use something that has been proven to be defective when there are other free alternatives that do a more accurate job? Some of these people are just burying their head in the sand.

[TB-ProAudio]

Updato to V1.0.2:
- RMS: Integration time changed to 600ms
- VU: Needle movement smoothed
- PPM: Ref Level changed to -18dBFS
- PreGain glitch: Gain match now with shift mouse click on max value
- VST3: crash during project load fixed

[Eleventh]

Again - if you can disprove my findings, as in "actual debunking with suitable/reproducable tests to back that up" - please do so, and we can start a hopefully objective conversation.

I've yet to see that happening in this thread.
Until then, I will stand my ground.

...whether you like it or not, or consider me "sh*tting on the developer's creation"...

wtf are you talking about? I'm referring to you implying that the developer is intentionally deceiving people. Your tone aside, cheers for the free testing, looks like it paid for the rest of us who actually find this plugin useful.

[TB-ProAudio]

Found a nasty bug in reaper where when you click on the gain to drag but it jumps straight away to +24dB!

Latest release v1.0.2 should fix this.

[Compyfox]

Another update, another try?
Let's see....



First the TL;DR version:

Updato to V1.0.2:
- RMS: Integration time changed to 600ms
- VU: Needle movement smoothed
- PPM: Ref Level changed to -18dBFS
- PreGain glitch: Gain match now with shift mouse click on max value
- VST3: crash during project load fixed

RMS: I can confirm that
VU: yeah, smoothed but depending on the incoming signal, it's still offset by +/- 1dB to 1,5dB. I consider this within "acceptable parameters"
PPM: not only was the Reference changed to -18dBFS, the inertia/ballistics/rise time was also fixed (see video below)
R-128 meter: due to the +3LU "relative" scale, it's still nonsense to use this type of meter. The official R-128 test sequence goes +5LU and beyond. This makes this meter completely unusable for measurements


BUGS (still present):
- all numeric values and the max-hold needle is reset, if you stop/rewind your project in Cubase 7.5 x64 (no infinite hold) - this is a known problem with your engine
- sporadic "jump" of volume knob on copied instance still happening

FURTHER LACK OF FEATURES:
- no "numeric insertion" of gain values




TL;DR SUMMARY:

Q: "Do you still recommend it?"

A: It's slowly getting there (I should really get paid for these kind of tests! Invested 6 hours on this yet again...). But I'm still hesitant on recommending it. I can for example not recommend using this as "accurate R-128 meter", just because of the scale alone. It's still inflexible regarding reference levels (they're fixed), the meter still has (depending on the incoming signal) an offset of +-1dB bar minimum (I tested with various sources the last couple of hours), the max values reset if you "stop" the playback and/or rewind your project (which makes it UNUSABLE for setting up a project/gain staging).

Add to that, that this plugin is really a more than obvious "copy" of another recently released metering plugin that worked right out of the box... Something I just can't ignore or agree with. You have make up your mind if it's something for you.


Q: "but it's a freebie!"

A: Yes it is. To me the developer uses this... release as "stepping stone" to sell his other creations. However, he surfs on the popularity of other tools just to make himself a name and doesn't even admit it. (I wrote more about this further below)

If you ignore that (on purpose, or just because you don't know it better)... then be happy with this tool. But to me, it's a really tacky move and triggers all the wrong buttons.





On to the "criticism" from various users...

Let me point out off hand, that I still wait for the "debunking" (2,5 weeks later, still nothing!). But as of v1.02 of mvMeter, you're in luck - because most bugs/issues I pointed out, are now ironed out. You basically evaded doing some homework, going more in-depth and disprove my findings. Instead, those that barked at me went the easy route and said "STFU, you're wrong", "stop ripping the developer", etc.

Now, you can keep on bragging that you've been "right all along" and I should have kept quiet about this. It is the easy route out. So... great work, indeed. You do get a medal for participation at least. But no medal for actually contributing or "fixing the issues".

You "blindly accepted" what was written/given to you - for free no less - and as usual... if somebody is critical about a release, it's "hell on earth" between the "fanboys" and "critical user" camp.



I'll close this out after the next couple of paragraphs. After that, make up your own mind.
I won't be holding your hand, that's not my job. But if I made you think about/question this release - then I did well.

If this particular meter is further maintained, great. Those that are on a budget or those that can't afford other tools, heck even those that don't give two dimes about the criticism, then by all means please enjoy.

But it will(!) leave a bad aftertaste after what I'm about to write in the following sentences.

wtf are you talking about? I'm referring to you implying that the developer is intentionally deceiving people.

I did not "imply" anything in this case...

The "developer" insisted that this plugin is an accurate meter from day 1 of his release (you wouldn't release a metering tool, if you're not 100% sure that it's working like it should), not to mention an "own creation". I called him out on that, then the developer suddenly went into "radio silence" mode.




And here is some further "food for thought" that adds to the commentary I've made so far...

Let us start with the UI:

mvMeter_UI_Comparison.jpg

You will definitely notice a couple of key things that were simply "ported" (dare I say copied), down to fine details like a blimp on the meter needle itself. In this particular screenshot, you see VUMT1, VUMT2 and mvMeter v1.02, unaltered, side by side.

Aside from the black border, a different stretched scale (and missing % values), it's scary how close mvMeter is to VUMT. For mvMeter, the "gain knob" was moved up into the half-circle cutout, the "numeric value" positions were copied, and the "skins" are also nearly identical considering that VUMT2 Deluxe introduced a "contrast flip" feature.

Keep in mind, VUMT2 was over 2 years in the making, and it was released on 23rd November 2016. mvMeter was released on 05th January 2017 - with no info on the development time (I asked about this for a reason!). Most of the code for mvMeter was probably existing already (due to other metering tools by the developer), so it does look like a bang up job to get this thing out of the door as fast as possible (which is somewhat confirmed by the offsets due to lack of testing).

Parallel development time, maybe.
Coincidence? Absolutely not IMO!




Then let's take a look into the manual of both mvMeter and VUMT2

mvMeter_Manual_Comparison.jpg

The manual of mvMeter had the branched out "orange boxes" as design right from the start (v1.0). Something that the Klanghelm developer uses for years at this point. But to take the cake, the v1.01 update of mvMeter saw a change/add-on in the manual after my criticism of "there are no further info on the calibration and ballistics".

The mvMeter manual then got the "Meter Scale" listing... which is nearly a 1:1 copy of what has been written in the VUMT2 manual.

Another coincidence?



"But sir, zplane PPMulator has a similar design in that particular manual"

That is indeed correct, and it's a good general overview. The table in the Klanghelm manual is obviously inspired from that as well. So it's a matter of debate if that's really a "copy of a copy".

However - considering how the mvMeter manual has been designed, and considering the criticism prior to the manual "add-on"... that is a bit cheeky IMO.



"Copying is the best form of flattery"?
Sorry - I just can't agree in this case!

Your tone aside, cheers for the free testing, looks like it paid for the rest of us who actually find this plugin useful.

So you (plural, since you speak for all other users) not only support a blatant ripoff, but also an up-until-this-point inaccurate tool (am I glad that you're not a surgeon!). If this really "paid for you", then I actually feel sorry for you that you lack the knowledge to properly test equipment (I did mention "how to do so" in this thread, albeit a bit cryptic on purpose - to see who can "really" debunk me) and therefore create offset material for your clients.


I mean, let's look at the following video:
mvMeter calibration and inertia test (VUMT2 vs mvMeter v1.01 and mvMeter 1.02
(open in new tab! -- ca 2:13min, no audio, h264, 8,5MB, 1656x420px)


Add to that, the usability of the EBU R-128 meter just with the official R-128 Audio Test Sequence alone...




You (plural) IGNORED those offsets! They were just some of several I pointed out... And instead of either confirming or debunking my finding, what did I get? A kick in the rear and a "STFU!". Are you really okay with that?!

If you are (singular and plural) fine with that, and your conscious is clean, then so be it. However - you completely ignored the stated facts, kept your blinders on even. And I am definitely not to blame for that.

YMMV of course.





I mean... let's add the icing on the cake, shall we?

ChannelStripClones_b.jpg

The release dates are:
DDMF The Strip ==> September 2014
TB Pro Audio CS-3301 ==> June 2016

Granted, further apart release wise. But then again, look how similar CS-3301 is compared to DDMF's "The Strip"! And both cost about the same as well.

So to me, this results in various questions:
a) really? Is this a coincidence?
b) why is the feature set similar (nearly the same, give or take "more options" for the compressor and a bonus saturation module)?
c) why is the UI similar (a more polished "design" with Native Instruments Komplete Plugin "look")?



I mean, copying other developers isn't something new. And in all fairness, both plugins interest me. But something is definitely not kosher here - not cool compared to the original creators even. I just can't close my eyes/look away about this.





With that said - I'll close this topic out (for me).

Nobody had the courage to "debunk" me - the discussion has been one-sided, insults flung on page 1 already. I think I've seen/done enough at this point.



Your move, people!

[provoc]

Found a nasty bug in reaper where when you click on the gain to drag but it jumps straight away to +24dB!

Latest release v1.0.2 should fix this.

Thanks, tested and no problems with 1.0.2 now!