KVR Audio

EDGEK8D · Post by **EDGEK8D** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:04 pm

Looking for wavetable hardware. I'm asking specifically about the wavetable synthesis engines. IMO, the Virus waxes the Blofeld in the VA department, and the FX department. I have VA and FX covered in other ways.

Of course there is also Microwave XT, but thats getting to be long in the tooth at this point, and I want a KB version, and the XTKB is really rare and pricey.

Which sounds better, more options/flexibility, more waveforms, and more fun to use?

Thanks

etherdesign · Post by **etherdesign** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:28 pm

Well, the Blofeld has all the Q wavetables, as well as the ones from the Waldorf Wave, Microwave II/XT and some of the PPG wavetables, as well as the PPG filter model... You can also load your own of course.. Not sure if you can do that on the Virus but I'd assume so, Blofeld is quite a bit cheaper tho assuming you want a semi-recent Virus. As for the KB version, it doesn't really offer anything the module doesn't have except a nice keybed, and it also includes the sample option which is an upgrade you can do to the module version as well.

I push it a lot but the Audiothingies Micromonsta is also a nice little wavetable synth that's half the price of a Blofeld.. but it doesn't have as many of those classic wavetables, or the PPG filter or some of the other nice things like the filter drive from the Blofeld.. You can load your own wavetables on that as well though. So as far as hardware goes I'd say the Blofeld is still probably the wavetable king, seems like it should have been dethroned by now but if it would be it would probably be another Waldorf synth..

Sounds well that's for you to judge, there's hundreds of demos for each of them up on youtube.. More waveforms, Blofeld.. Flexibility, kind of a toss up, they both have great mod matrixes, two filters per voice I believe, Blofeld has nice overdrive, waveshaping, distortion..

EDGEK8D · Post by **EDGEK8D** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:13 am

etherdesign wrote:Well, the Blofeld has all the Q wavetables, as well as the ones from the Waldorf Wave, Microwave II/XT and some of the PPG wavetables, as well as the PPG filter model... You can also load your own of course.. Not sure if you can do that on the Virus but I'd assume so, Blofeld is quite a bit cheaper tho assuming you want a semi-recent Virus. As for the KB version, it doesn't really offer anything the module doesn't have except a nice keybed, and it also includes the sample option which is an upgrade you can do to the module version as well.

I push it a lot but the Audiothingies Micromonsta is also a nice little wavetable synth that's half the price of a Blofeld.. but it doesn't have as many of those classic wavetables, or the PPG filter or some of the other nice things like the filter drive from the Blofeld.. You can load your own wavetables on that as well though. So as far as hardware goes I'd say the Blofeld is still probably the wavetable king, seems like it should have been dethroned by now but if it would be it would probably be another Waldorf synth..

Sounds well that's for you to judge, there's hundreds of demos for each of them up on youtube.. More waveforms, Blofeld.. Flexibility, kind of a toss up, they both have great mod matrixes, two filters per voice I believe, Blofeld has nice overdrive, waveshaping, distortion..

Thanks. The Blo certainly has more waves. The Virus has better filters though, and better distortion.

The Micromonsta sounds fantastic. I'm trying to get away from little boxes with less than desirable interfaces, however. The P6 sounded amazing too.

I've also looked hard at the Sledge 2.0. The black one has an improved drive/output, and keybed, although that black keybed is weird on my eyes. It also has many of the Blofeld waves. The Sledge lacks the modulation and complex filter routings of the Blofeld however. That interface is the best of them all, but I feel it might be too limited compared to the Virus or Blofeld.

I just sold a Virus B. Its a great synth, but I wanted more than the single-cycle spectral waves. This is why I'm considering a TI, but the Blofeld has caught my attention with so many waves. Less knobs, and much cheaper though.

I imagine the best answer is to get a TI keyboard and sit a Blofeld desktop right on it. Likewise, and more economical, a Blo-keys with a Snow sitting on it would work out nice, and be a lot of power in a small setup. I can't get over the lack of interface on the Snow though, and I prefer to program without the computer. Thx

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:41 am

The Blofeld just wasn't fun to work with. I watched a huge range of youtube stuff to see what can be done, and it is awesome - but not fun to work with. One of the few products I used return policy on.

I have much more fun with KingKorg and there are wavetable stuff in there too. Really vast variety of oscillator sources, including a mike input. And quite a bit of knobs on panel to tweak directly too.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:51 am

I had owned a TI around 10 years (sold last year) and a Blofeld since around 7 years now.

As a dedicated wavetable synth the Blofeld is much better IMO. The overall quality of the wavetables in Blofeld is much better and it is possible to load custom wavetables too besids teh option to also load samples (up to 64 MB).
It's quite funny that when talking about wavetable synths nobody actually talks about the wavetables included and later poeple realize that without the proper wavetables it is hard to replicate certain sounds.
If you like the Waldorf sound like many poepe do then the best is also to get a Waldorf synth.

FWIW before i sold the TI i made samples of the Hypersaw at differnt detune amounts and also use those as samples in my Blofeld desktop.

Speaking about the Blofeld filters i normally prefer teh PPG mode over the standard LPF and the Waldorf Comb filters seem to be almost "legendary" already...

Additionally also using the Drive (multiple modes) could make a difference with the Blofeld filters.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:22 am

Ingonator wrote: It's quite funny that when talking about wavetable synths nobody actually talks about the wavetables included and later poeple realize that without the proper wavetables it is hard to replicate certain sounds.
If you like the Waldorf sound like many poepe do then the best is also to get a Waldorf synth.

As I recall when buying the Blofeld module, you still had to cash up another $100 or so to get what is available?

I think this was included if getting Blofeld keyboard though.

And another strange thing was that presets could only be replaced in full - not single patches.
Or was that fixed with firmware update by now?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:40 am

You can have custom wavetables in the desktop Blofeld without paying $ for SL License.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:40 am

lfm wrote:
Ingonator wrote: It's quite funny that when talking about wavetable synths nobody actually talks about the wavetables included and later poeple realize that without the proper wavetables it is hard to replicate certain sounds.
If you like the Waldorf sound like many poepe do then the best is also to get a Waldorf synth.

As I recall when buying the Blofeld module, you still had to cash up another $100 or so to get what is available?

I think this was included if getting Blofeld keyboard though.

And another strange thing was that presets could only be replaced in full - not single patches.
Or was that fixed with firmware update by now?

The sample expansion for the desktop (this is not related to teh custiom wavetables) is indeed an extra payment. You receive an unlock code while the necessary hardware (around 64 MB flash memory) is already included.
With the keyboard it is indeed included which besides the fact that the keyboard version is not really expensive (currently around 629 € incl. VAT at Thomann) makes this quite a bargain (and FWIW the keyboard uses a Fataer keybed with aftertouch and velocity).

When i made by Blofeld soundbank several yeras ago i used a free editor wit ha built-in librarian for patch managment. Anyway if you save single patches as SYX files you should be able to send this to the edit buffer and the save it to a desired location with the save feature in the hardware (that way it also works with the Pulse 2). For simple Sysex file recording and sending (both full banks and single patches SYX files) i normally use Bome SendSX.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:44 pm

The Ti has a more limited set of wavetables but on the other hand you can do a lot more with them as you also have graintable and formant synthesis options which makes it one of the few hardware synths that can do those types of synthesis. The wavetables themselves seem well chosen, there is a fair amount of variety in them.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:49 pm

EvilDragon wrote:You can have custom wavetables in the desktop Blofeld without paying $ for SL License.

True, but as I remember it there was something about getting free and commercial libraries that not partly was easy to send - start patch no until patch or something like that.

It's a more than year ago now so memory start to fade about details.

When starting out it's really nice to start off with something close to what you look for, and modify.

Starting scratch with patch in Blofeld was a bit cumbersome.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:53 pm

The price is a major consideration, isn't it? Cheapest Virus TI module: 1.555 €. Blofeld: 385 €. Ok, Virus has more controls, not so much menu diving, probably the better sounding VA engine (Blofeld/Largo's is good too though), more sophisticated synthesis, and unison options. Blofeld has the classic wavetables from the Waldorf synths though, the "Waldorf sound", PPG filter, and also loads of modulation options. Tough call.

I guess it really depends on which sound you like better, and whether that is worth to invest more than 3 times what you'd pay for a Blofeld. IMO, the Blofeld is a bargain. If your budget allows it, maybe even buy them both?

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Ingonator wrote: The sample expansion for the desktop (this is not related to teh custiom wavetables) is indeed an extra payment. You receive an unlock code while the necessary hardware (around 64 MB flash memory) is already included.
With the keyboard it is indeed included which besides the fact that the keyboard version is not really expensive (currently around 629 € incl. VAT at Thomann) makes this quite a bargain (and FWIW the keyboard uses a Fataer keybed with aftertouch and velocity).

When i made by Blofeld soundbank several yeras ago i used a free editor wit ha built-in librarian for patch managment. Anyway if you save single patches as SYX files you should be able to send this to the edit buffer and the save it to a desired location with the save feature in the hardware (that way it also works with the Pulse 2). For simple Sysex file recording and sending (both full banks and single patches SYX files) i normally use Bome SendSX.

Yes, the price difference for keyboard version compared to module was fictive - I did not realize until I bought it.

Strongest reason getting external gear for me is not having to sit by computer editing. I got a Nordlead 2X for less money used than Blofeld, and that is all fun to work with as well as good sounding.

Your info was good value when I was about to buy Blofeld, and clarify some for people now about to get it too. Thanks for clarification, my memory was a bit vague on this.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:16 pm

Besides the Blofeld desktop with SL expansion (got it since several years) since end of 2015 i also got a Novation UltraNova here. Like the Blofeld and Virus TI this has a quite complex synth engine with 3 Oscs, 2 multimode filters, 36 wavetables (besides VA and additional single waveforms), 6 envelopes, 3 LFOs and a lot more. Like the Blofeld keyboard the UltraNova has a Fatar keybed with aftertouch and velocity and could be used as a audio interface and midi controller (with Automap). A nice VST editor is included too. One of my favorite features is te "Density" feature available in all 3 OScs that is comparable to a Hypersaw but works for all waveforms. The price with currently around 444 € (at Thomann) is a real bargain (for 489 € you get it together with a blue Novation gigbag). The only downsides IMO are having only a 3 octaves keyboard and that it is monotimbtral.

Here in Germany currently if you buy both a Blofeld keyboard and a Novation Ultranova you have to pay less than 1100 € for both which is still much cheaper than a Virus TI2 desktop and around half the price of a TI2 keyboard. If you get a Blofeld desktop instead it will be even cheaper.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:22 pm

Wow, didn't know the Ultranova is so dirt cheap now.

On the other hand, it always struck me as a bit "soft synthie" in a bad way. Judging from merely sound demos, i think i like the sound of the Virus and Blofeld more. All the sounds coming from the Ultranova seemed a bit average to me. At least not that i would see a big argument over any of nowadays soft synths there. Each to his like.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:49 pm

chk071 wrote:Wow, didn't know the Ultranova is so dirt cheap now. On the other hand, it always struck me as a bit "soft synthie" in a bad way. Judging from merely sound demos, i think i like the sound of the Virus and Blofeld more. All the sounds coming from the Ultranova seemed a bit average to me. At least not that i would see a big argument over any of nowadays soft synths there. Each to his like.

Well, based on sound demos i did not like Ultranova that much as when i played with it myself for a while. You could get easily fooled if you do not check a certain synth yourself. The Ultranova does not really sound "cheap" for my taste. I would like to have proper soft synth substituatiion but this does not really seem to exist so far (similar to the Virus TI). Some plugins like e.g. Tone2 Icarus or Electra 2.1 plugins could get somwhow close but there are also differences. The V-Station plugin is quite limited in comparison and also sound wise it is not similar. V-Station is an emulation of the K-Station while the synth engine in UltraNova is based on the Supernova II but has some additional features.

Last year i also got the Novation Bass Station II so with this, Ultranova, Blofeld desktop (+ SL expansion) and Pulse 2 i got both a VA and real analog monosynth from Waldorf and Novation now. If i count the prices of all 4 together it is still below 2000 € (around 1750 € with current prices at Thomann). FWIW i got the Pulse 2 for free as i was one of the beta testers and factory presets sound designers and with my soundset for Blofeld which is out since end of 2010 i earned a lot more than the synth did cost.

The Blofeld, Ultranova and Virus TI (i owned them all 3) all got their own sound and feature set so IMO it is impossible to give a proper recommendation to someone here.

Wavetable Deathmatch: Blofeld vs Virus TI