Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

[Ingonator]

I now compared my sound in The Legend to a similar one in OB-Xd that uses real PWM (Pulse modulated by a LFO) and my sound in The Legend still sounds more like a Saw than actual PWM, no matter how i set the PWM on Ob-Xd (start pulse width and mod amount/rate). Using a detuned Saw in OB-Xd sounds similar to my patch in The Legend.

Actually i had recreated that patch in The Legend based on one in OB-Xd...

Isn't it a key property of Legend that everything is always on and free-running? I thought I read that weeks ago when it was launched. So, you should not be able to produce an authentic pulse that way.

This was also not what i intended and i did not want discuss abou PWM or possible PWM at all. I wanted to get a slightly different behavior how two detuned Saws (detuned around 10 cents) do sound and using the two different Saws in taht respect is sligtly differnt tahn using two similar ones.

Others here more less wanted to tell me this is wrong even if it sounds like i wanted it, also compared to OBXD which is used for comparison.

With a detune of 0 cents it sounds indeed a bit different to suing two similar Saws but this was not what i wanted to do.


The time that i wanted to use to finish the patch and maybe also post that and an audio demo here was mostly wasted for discussing that PWM stuff now...

[ENV1]

On Sylenth1 the pulse sounds different with every first note as well because the two phases change all the time, thus the resulting pulse width as well.

Thats what i thought.

Yeah, z3ta+ is quite different in that respect. I guess its fair to say that z3ta+ is generally a bit different than most other synths. Still a great synth to have, its capabilities are vast (VA/FM/PM/Waveshaping), versatility is high and the sound is great. Cakewalk gave it away as magware some time ago.

[ENV1]

Others here more less wanted to tell me this is wrong even if it sounds like i wanted it, also compared to OBXD which is used for comparison.

What i was telling you is that using 2 saws and inverting one will create a square and/or PWM sound, which is simply how it is. If thats the sound you want, fine, why not. I use whatever i like too. The fact that i mentioned it wasnt meant as a criticism, i simply mentioned it because you didnt seem aware of it.

[AnX]

Others here more less wanted to tell me this is wrong

Nobody said anything was wrong, you were just being told something you didnt know.

[Yorrrrrr]

Thanks Ingo, great patches from you, as usual.

[Ingonator]

After finding a hint at the Gearslutz thread for The Legend (and now also in the U-He sub-forum) i started using the free "PolyMind 2.1" Max 4 Live device in Live 9.7.1 (Live 9 Suite). With this finally for me it is quite possible to get a polyphonic synth from multiple instances of a monophonic synth. So far i failed to get this working but with the Polymind M4L device it seems to be simple.

Anyway like zerocrossing mentioned in the other KVR sub-forum this could also make sense with plugins that offer Unison like e.g. The Legend.
So with the help of PolyMind i fisrst created a 4 voice polysynth from 4 instances of The Legend and then added Unison in all 4 instances (+ Unison detuning and stereo spread). With additionally adding stero spread with teh panning of teh 4 instances i was a ble to get a super fat poly Union sound from one of my own Synth Brass patches.

Using 4 instances (all with 4 voice Unison) and playing 4 notes at an Intel i5 3350P CPU and Ableton Live 9.7.1 64 bit on Windows 10 64-bit at the dispaly in Live i got a CPU load of around 13%. This corresponds to playing 16 voices or 32 detuned Oscs (with 2 OScs in the patch) at once.

Polymind consists of a "Polymind Brain" M4L plugin that is added to a first MIDI track (where you also set the MIDI input) and up to 16 "Polymind Satellite" plugins taht are added to the MIDI tracks with the instances of the synth plugin (one for each voice so theer is a maxmum of 16 voices). MIDI Input for the "Satellite" tracks could be deactivated as teh satellite plugins receive teh input from the first MIDI track with teh "Brain" plugin. This also uses voice cycling so hitting a note multiple times cycles the instances/voices.

Of course with Polymind this only works if you have Live 9 and Max 4 Live (like in Live 9 Suite). If you got other "poly-chain" and/or voice allocation plugins that make this work for you you could try this in a similar way. For me Polymind was the first time i got it working this way.

[AnX]

[EnGee]

Well, I did get an email from Marcin but from his private email, and with it an email he has sent the second day after I have sent my question! So, it seems a communication error between Synapse Audio server and google server maybe. Anyway, I do believe him of course (he needn't to send me an email if he doesn't care really).
So, my apology to Marcin, for my doubts and I hope there will be no miscommunication between my server (whatever it is) and theirs.

Anyway, I'm waiting for a new version of The Legend, because I might be able to run it as a demo again

[Ingonator]

After finding a hint at the Gearslutz thread for The Legend (and now also in the U-He sub-forum) i started using the free "PolyMind 2.1" Max 4 Live device in Live 9.7.1 (Live 9 Suite). With this finally for me it is quite possible to get a polyphonic synth from multiple instances of a monophonic synth. So far i failed to get this working but with the Polymind M4L device it seems to be simple.

Anyway like zerocrossing mentioned in the other KVR sub-forum this could also make sense with plugins that offer Unison like e.g. The Legend.
So with the help of PolyMind i fisrst created a 4 voice polysynth from 4 instances of The Legend and then added Unison in all 4 instances (+ Unison detuning and stereo spread). With additionally adding stero spread with teh panning of teh 4 instances i was a ble to get a super fat poly Union sound from one of my own Synth Brass patches.

Using 4 instances (all with 4 voice Unison) and playing 4 notes at an Intel i5 3350P CPU and Ableton Live 9.7.1 64 bit on Windows 10 64-bit at the dispaly in Live i got a CPU load of around 13%. This corresponds to playing 16 voices or 32 detuned Oscs (with 2 OScs in the patch) at once.

Polymind consists of a "Polymind Brain" M4L plugin that is added to a first MIDI track (where you also set the MIDI input) and up to 16 "Polymind Satellite" plugins taht are added to the MIDI tracks with the instances of the synth plugin (one for each voice so theer is a maxmum of 16 voices). MIDI Input for the "Satellite" tracks could be deactivated as teh satellite plugins receive teh input from the first MIDI track with teh "Brain" plugin. This also uses voice cycling so hitting a note multiple times cycles the instances/voices.

Of course with Polymind this only works if you have Live 9 and Max 4 Live (like in Live 9 Suite). If you got other "poly-chain" and/or voice allocation plugins that make this work for you you could try this in a similar way. For me Polymind was the first time i got it working this way.

Here are two screnshots of a The Legend poly setup using my "Twelve Saws Lead IW" 4-voice Unison factory preset, the Polymind M4L device and a M4L LFO device (for small random tuning variation of the "voices") in Live 9.7.1:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... on%201.png


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... on%202.png


Even with 5 x 4 = 20 voices (or 60 detuned Oscs) playing at once the CPU use is at 29% (display in Live 9) which is not too much also due to the fact that Intel i5-3350P was used that is not super powerful compared to modern i7 CPUs..


Here is an audio demo using the The Legend poly Unison setup in the screenshots posted above and also that preset:

IW - The Legend_Poly Unison Demo 01

This was recorded "live", no multitrack recording used. At the audio track where the 5 The Legend instances/voices were routed to a Lexicon MPX Native Reverb was added. No other built-in or external audio FXs added besides the Poylmind and LFO M4L MIDI plugins.

The instances are slightly panned (as shown in teh screenshot) to add additional stereo spread and the LFO module adds a small random detuning to the instances/voices of The Legend.

[Mutant]

Sounds better than most real analogs with 8 and less voices.

[Ingonator]

Sounds better than most real analogs with 8 and less voices.

Actually i had a similar feeling when creating my free Synth Brass collection with The Legend (see the dedicated thread at Soundware). Many of those patches for me seem to sound better than with a dedicated polysynth plugin.

Many vintage polysynths did not seem to be able to do polyphonic Unison like in that audio demo which was the point why i used the Polymind MIDI FX as with 4-voice Unison The Legend is monophonic.
With 4 notes and 4 voice Unison you would need a polysynth with 16 voices (and in this example 3 Oscs were used so with 4 notes it would be 48 detuned Oscs). The Memorymoog was able to play 6 voice Unison (monophonic) which coresponds to up to 18 Oscs at once. As you could activate all waveforms at once it could be actually many more waveforms playing at once (around 18 x 3 = 54 waveforms).
Alesis Andromeda A6 of the real analog polysynths besides having the huge amount of 16 voices seemed to be one of the most flexible in terms of Unison with an option to have 2 up to 16 voices per key/note.


The preset used for the demo was not specifically designed to be used with poly Unison. I will try to create specific patches for this later.

[Ingonator]

Anyway, I'm waiting for a new version of The Legend, because I might be able to run it as a demo again

The next version will include some interesting new features but i have no clue when it will be released (it's work in progress) and of course i could also not talk about details yet.

[Ingonator]

Here is an audio demo using the The Legend poly Unison setup in the screenshots posted above and also that preset:

IW - The Legend_Poly Unison Demo 01

This was recorded "live", no multitrack recording used. At the audio track where the 5 The Legend instances/voices were routed to a Lexicon MPX Native Reverb was added. No other built-in or external audio FXs added besides the Poylmind and LFO M4L MIDI plugins.

The instances are slightly panned (as shown in teh screenshot) to add additional stereo spread and the LFO module adds a small random detuning to the instances/voices of The Legend.

Another audio demo (again played "live" and/or in realtime) with a new Unison patch that seems to suit using polyphonic Unison better than the previous one (again all "voices" were routed to the Lexicon MPX Native Reverb):

IW - The Legend_Poly Unison Demo 02

Unison detune is at 48% so this could be detuned a lot more.

Here is a download for the patch used in this demo:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 2%20IW.zip

A downside of using Polymind seems to be that e.g. the Modwheel and Pichwheel are no longer usable. Will check for a possible workaround for this soon.

[EnGee]

Anyway, I'm waiting for a new version of The Legend, because I might be able to run it as a demo again

The next version will include some interesting new features but i have no clue when it will be released (it's work in progress) and of course i could also not talk about details yet.

Good to hear that! I'll put some money aside then

[carrieres]

awesome sound !