bitwig 2 is here

[elxsound]

Before this becomes a back and forth personal conversation that no one cares for...

I get that many BW users want to get on talking about features. I think this is possible without belittling the expressed opinions of those who have been critical of Bitwig or their new pricing model, OR likewise belittling those who are excited for what's to come.

There is definitely enough space for everyone here.

[pdxindy]

The only things I take exception to with your comments is that they appear to be disingenuous...

That of course is not everyone... but there are a number of voices complaining who when one line of complaining loses traction, they switch to another, or jump on whatever momentary complaint wagon might arise... and who tend to refuse any suggestions that might resolve their issue because they are more interested in complaining than in correcting the thing they say they are upset about.

Yes, I call that disingenuous. It does not take many such voices to sour the soup and the utility of the forum as a place where users can resolve issue, learn from each other, understand bugs better, and so on goes way down.

[chk071]

Customer vs. the company he feeds with his money - the new trend online.

Are you suggesting that unhappy customers should not complain ?
I'm a bit confused by that comment.

It was suggested a few times that a person in this thread should send an email to Bitwig support, to get a reply on his questions, both by the respective mod, and by users (including me). He/her refused to do so, and instead decided to go on lamenting about his/her ban in the Bitwig forum. So it isn't a complaint. It's politics. And power. It's like standing outside of an Apple shop, warning others about the evils which lurk inside. Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

[nbot]

So it isn't a complaint. It's politics. And power. It's like standing outside of an Apple shop, warning others about the evils which lurk inside. Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

Omg, now you even read my mind and know that my motives are political. Just amazing! For your information I already sent a question to support team. I must say you're strangely biased, maybe you have some interest to present this "accident" that way?

Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

I'm sorry - I haven't seen your name and last name in your profile on KVR so it's a very funny accusation.

I'm on the other hand will try to be unbiased - I still believe Bitwig is probably the best DAW available with killer UI and huge potential. It's even a lot better in version 2.0 and honestly I was saving money anticipating release this year. I'm writing this as a user and and as a person who tries to understand the details of controversial (in my opinion) license - after all it's my money that will probably support the project. I wouldn't do this if I didn't care or respect job done by Bitwig team. I'm just really concerned and lost.

I'm also supporter of transparency and freedom of speech, so for me locking threads and blocking discussion is totally unacceptable.

Nevertheless - it's all from my side and please stop personal fighting - I think there's enough room for everybody's opinion.

[chk071]

For your information I already sent a question to support team.

Good. Then i don't see a reason to go on and on about how you have been mistreated.

@ Freedom of speech: Hello? Time to wake up. This is a forum run by private people, not some kind of political opinion platform where any nobody from nowhere can post his opinion, and tussle with like-minded people. The fact that so many confuse it with that doesn't make it any more true. Read the forum rules, if you don't believe me. If i would post "F*** all jews", and get banned, i could also resort to my right of freedom of speech, but, i hardly would be treated any other way by the mods here, which are there to enforce rules, if i do so. Sounds logical, and like something everyone should know himself? Well, it doesn't look like it.

And there is no personal fighting. I'm just stating the obvious, which doesn't seem to be so obvious, because people always rather apply their subjective truths, than care about facts, rules, whatever. And frankly, i'm getting a bit sick about it, and also sick about people notoriously claiming companies in this business are so evil, when they're just trying to make a business. Just because people try to be lefter than left wing, and set moral standards, and claims, which they can hardly stand up to themselves. Seriously, what else is this than trying to throw sh** on the company? If you would be up to getting your questions replied, you would have just sent them a support email, instead of getting banned on their forums, and now lamenting about it here. Period.

[Hink]

So it isn't a complaint. It's politics. And power. It's like standing outside of an Apple shop, warning others about the evils which lurk inside. Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

Omg, now you even read my mind and know that my motives are political. Just amazing! For your information I already sent a question to support team. I must say you're strangely biased, maybe you have some interest to present this "accident" that way?

Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

I'm sorry - I haven't seen your name and last name in your profile on KVR so it's a very funny accusation.

I'm on the other hand will try to be unbiased - I still believe Bitwig is probably the best DAW available with killer UI and huge potential. It's even a lot better in version 2.0 and honestly I was saving money anticipating release this year. I'm writing this as a user and and as a person who tries to understand the details of controversial (in my opinion) license - after all it's my money that will probably support the project. I wouldn't do this if I didn't care or respect job done by Bitwig team. I'm just really concerned and lost.

I'm also supporter of transparency and freedom of speech, so for me locking threads and blocking discussion is totally unacceptable.

Nevertheless - it's all from my side and please stop personal fighting - I think there's enough room for everybody's opinion.

my question is why are you using a sockpuppet account to voice your concerns? You can keep the account you used sept 29th 2016 for now. Everyone of your posts from this account have been about bitwig, you're done.

[David Boura]

It was suggested a few times that a person in this thread should send an email to Bitwig support, to get a reply on his questions, both by the respective mod, and by users (including me). He/her refused to do so, and instead decided to go on lamenting about his/her ban in the Bitwig forum. So it isn't a complaint. It's politics. And power. It's like standing outside of an Apple shop, warning others about the evils which lurk inside. Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

Who?

[ThomasHelzle]

I'm also supporter of transparency and freedom of speech, so for me locking threads and blocking discussion is totally unacceptable.

That is something I always struggle with. I co-moderated the Bitwig Forum for a while and basically would agree with you in normal life quite strongly.

But after you try your best for a while with helping people, you realise that there are a lot of them who do not care the least for anything constructive (I do not talk about you or anybody specific here) but enter each and every thread, no matter what the topic, to spread their gall.

So you have that brandnew user, eager to learn the software and asking for some advice about this and that and booom, he basically gets the equivalent of a year worth of bad-digestion residue emptied over him.
So instead of somebody open and curious you now have somebody confused and insecure.
He may be totally new to audio software and suddenly is totally in the defensive instead of getting a helping hand.

Or you have an old hand, really knowledgeable, willing to help others, encountering some obstacle. Instead of solutions and workarounds, people start to empty all their bottled-up anger over him, when he tries to get to the bottom of the problem instead of just getting told how demented the devs are anyway. He may just go somewhere else instead of being a valueable member of the community - why should he waste his time with such silly stuff. In an early article about Bitwig, a writer said that you "should not enter this kind of audio forum or you may lose your will to live".

And there are real nutcases who write on KVR and to support under dozens of different names...

So for me personally, I find it extremely hard to on one side try to create a community that is helpful and welcoming and on the other hand keep a certain part of that community from simply blurting down everything that isn't in the respective unhappy persons agenda.

I personally think, that a lot of this hasn't anything to do with free speech at all and it's actually a miss-use of the term.

But yes, if everybody is focused on getting music done and being respectful with others opinions, all is fine, you don't need to moderate things.
But what is the value of everything going down in destructive spirals?

For me personally it means that I spend less time on KVR and the Bitwig Forum nowadays...
There are more constructive ways to spend my life.

Cheers,

Tom

[chk071]

It was suggested a few times that a person in this thread should send an email to Bitwig support, to get a reply on his questions, both by the respective mod, and by users (including me). He/her refused to do so, and instead decided to go on lamenting about his/her ban in the Bitwig forum. So it isn't a complaint. It's politics. And power. It's like standing outside of an Apple shop, warning others about the evils which lurk inside. Only that it is more cowardish, because you can even hide behind the anonymity of a nickname on the net.

Who?

The person who felt adressed above.

[pdxindy]

@ Freedom of speech: Hello? Time to wake up. This is a forum run by private people, not some kind of political opinion platform where any nobody from nowhere can post his opinion, and tussle with like-minded people. The fact that so many confuse it with that doesn't make it any more true. Read the forum rules, if you don't believe me. If i would post "F*** all jews", and get banned, i could also resort to my right of freedom of speech, but, i hardly would be treated any other way by the mods here, which are there to enforce rules, if i do so. Sounds logical, and like something everyone should know himself? Well, it doesn't look like it.

Thankfully, he was banned... that is one of the constant manipulations... trying to guilt people with the free speech meme. As you say these are private forums. On my forum, which I run and pay for, I do not even need to have forum rules. I can ban anyone I want, whenever I want, for any arbitrary reason. Forum rules are themselves a curtesy. There is no free speech on websites. Your free speech is the ability to go make your own website!

And these days, many people have retreated from real world engagement over real civil liberties and instead pretend to care in virtual worlds where there are none. Meanwhile, in the real world, real rights are disappearing fast... and almost nobody does anything about it cause they are hiding in the virtual world and pretending that is living...

[elxsound]

@ Freedom of speech: Hello? Time to wake up. This is a forum run by private people, not some kind of political opinion platform where any nobody from nowhere can post his opinion, and tussle with like-minded people. The fact that so many confuse it with that doesn't make it any more true. Read the forum rules, if you don't believe me. If i would post "F*** all jews", and get banned, i could also resort to my right of freedom of speech, but, i hardly would be treated any other way by the mods here, which are there to enforce rules, if i do so. Sounds logical, and like something everyone should know himself? Well, it doesn't look like it.

Thankfully, he was banned... that is one of the constant manipulations... trying to guilt people with the free speech meme. As you say these are private forums. On my forum, which I run and pay for, I do not even need to have forum rules. I can ban anyone I want, whenever I want, for any arbitrary reason. Forum rules are themselves a curtesy. There is no free speech on websites. Your free speech is the ability to go make your own website!

And these days, many people have retreated from real world engagement over real civil liberties and instead pretend to care in virtual worlds where there are none. Meanwhile, in the real world, real rights are disappearing fast... and almost nobody does anything about it cause they are hiding in the virtual world and pretending that is living...

I wish this wasn't true.

[dplduffy]

For me personally it means that I spend less time on KVR and the Bitwig Forum nowadays...
There are more constructive ways to spend my life.

Exactly why I stopped posting there too. I'm super pumped for 2.0 though. So happy they redid the Midi timing for external synths!

[pdxindy]

For me personally it means that I spend less time on KVR and the Bitwig Forum nowadays...
There are more constructive ways to spend my life.

Exactly why I stopped posting there too. I'm super pumped for 2.0 though. So happy they redid the Midi timing for external synths!

I haven't been on KVR in months... then I happened to hear about Bitwig 2.0 and came back to read about it. Exciting news! I'm also happy they redid the Midi timing for external synths (and not just for external instruments)... plus VST3 with sample accurate automation and note expression support, the new modulators that can make modulation chains and be polyphonic, Remote Controls, all the new devices...

[incubus]

I honestly have a hard time understanding why you don't just ask the right people?

https://www.bitwig.com/en/support/contact.html

I truly believe this thread really deserves to get back on topic.

Best,
Dom

Still waiting

[SLiC]

We need the beta out so that we can actually discuss the software!